Cody & Justin: Life In Early Retirement, Net Worth vs. Net Life, Quests, Community | FRLP 110
What does life actually look like after you hit your FI number? In this episode of the Fit Rich Life Podcast, Justin sits down with Cody Berman — who reached financial independence at 25 and just released his #1 bestselling book Retired by 30 — for an honest, peer-to-peer conversation about the messy, rewarding first years of early retirement. They took two different roads to the same place (Cody through entrepreneurship, Justin through a corporate sales career), and they compare notes on identity, decompression, building businesses that run without you, and why the real goal was never a number.
Fit Rich Life Podcast Episode 110 with Cody Berman is available on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, and wherever you enjoy your podcast entertainment.
Connect with Cody Berman:
Website: https://goldcityventures.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/codydberman/
What we cover in this episode
Working in seasons instead of grinding 24/7/365
The identity crisis that hits when you leave a high-performing career
The decompression period nobody warns you about (and sleeping 10–12 hours a night for a year)
Why you still need a quest — and how to find your North Star in early retirement
Building scalable, systemized businesses (SOPs, delegation, passive income)
The 1,200-day email sequence and the “leaky bucket” problem
Structuring your days around your values — not a job
The transition period and getting comfortable in the unknown
Why community is an asset class, and “be the lighthouse, not the tugboat”
Shifting from maximizing net worth to maximizing net life
Resources & links mentioned
Books: Retire By 30 by Cody Berman · Traction by Gino Wickman· The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss · Profit First by Mike Michalowicz · Retire Often by Jillian Johnsrud · Transitions by William Bridges
People: Grant Sabatier · Paula Pant · Scott Trench · Jillian Johnsrud · Doug Cunnington (Mile High FI) · JD Roth (Get Rich Slowly) · Justin Welsh · Dan Koe · Ramit Sethi (money dials)
Events: Camp FI · EconoMe · FinCon
Tools: Kit (email) · Asana · Loom · Slack · Empower (formerly Personal Capital)
Cody’s business: Gold City Ventures
Get a FREE copy of my Money Guide: https://mwob.fitrichlife.com/
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Full Transcript:
Cody & Justin: Life In Early Retirement, Net Worth vs. Net Life, Quests, Community & More | FRLP 110
“Retire By 30” Hits #1: The First 24 Hours After Launch
Justin: Cody Berman back on the show just released Retire By 30, his new book. Tell us about the first, what, couple days of release?
Cody: Yeah, the first 16 hours were unlike anything I could have ever imagined. basically right in the morning on Tuesday, May 12th, it was just like an onslaught of promotion. I promoted on all my social media channels. There was a bunch of podcasts that went live, written interviews that went live. What I didn't expect though was how many friends, people on social media, family would share. And by the end of that first day, I was, recorded a video actually I had on my Instagram. I was number three in retirement planning. I was number two in investing and I was number two in budgeting. And then a couple hours later I was sleeping, but I checked, I woke up at like five and I checked and I was number one in all of my main book categories. So within 16 hours of releasing, dude, so crazy. So now I'm officially a bestselling author within 24 hours of releasing my book. Well, within 16 actually it's mind blowing, dude. It's been pretty amazing and
Justin: Let's goooo
Cody: It seems like so far the book's been very well received. I don't think a lot of people have had time to read it yet, but as far as I'm told and what I've heard from my beta readers, people who got early issues of the book, it's changing lives already. So it's been awesome, man.
Two Very Different Paths to Early Retirement
Justin: Hell yeah. And you've been on the show multiple times and we did a deep dive on your book in our last conversation. And there was a big piece in that book that I wanted to spend at least an hour talking about. So that's why you're back on the show. So chapter 18, life in retirement is what we're going to talk about in this. conversation. And this is going to be less of an interview and more of a contrasting of our experiences, reaching our FI number, hitting that early retirement segment of life and how that can be disorienting. You did your financial independence journey through entrepreneurship. I did mine through corporate nine to five and You're 30 years old. I'm 44 and we had different and similar experiences in different ways. So one of the things we both talked about in the previous conversation is we both pretty much hit our FI number in about three years after committing to the financial independence journey. You did it through entrepreneurship. did it through a high paying sales job and SF Bay area tech, but, you've been at your FI number and out of, you know, traditional work infinitely longer than me. And I think it would just. One, be great for the audience, those of you who are pursuing early retirement, those who may be in the first year or two to just listen to our thoughts and experiences and then selfishly, I'm going to use this conversation as part of my own processing. Of the first two years of early retirement from the nine to five job. Cause it's the first year I freely admit was sucked. did a terrible job. The first nine, 10 months, I was not happy. felt very lost and I made a, some mistakes I probably could have avoided if I had thought through it better and did more. reading conversations, I've had read your book. So. Why don't you talk to us first about. your own experience in your own process of retirement. And I know you continued to work, but in the book, you make this great point that in retirement for you, work moved from something you did 24, seven, three 65 to something you did in seasons. So walk us through kind of.
Cody: Mm-hmm.
Justin: some of your challenges, some of your insights, or really anything you want to share about your own experience with ultra early retirement. Cause you, you became a millionaire, in your twenties and hit your FI number in your twenties. tell us a little bit about that.
Why Cody Works in Seasons Instead of Grinding 24/7
Cody: Yeah. Yeah, well, one, just want to thank you because that chapter actually got the worst review, I guess you could say, from my editor on the first time around. She's like, this chapter sucks. It feels shallow to me. You need more examples like this is trash. I had to rewrite that chapter like three times. So the fact that you think it's one of the best ones is awesome. But to answer your question, it took me a while, honestly, like after I hit my financial freedom number to really internalize what that meant. I think for me, I had this scarcity mindset so deeply ingrained in me that even when all the spreadsheets in the world could show me that, Cody, you're gonna be fine. You should honestly double your spending, you'd be fine. It just, something didn't sit right. I just like kept hammering the income button, kept trying to make as much money as humanly possible. And it wasn't until, so I hit FI when I was 25. It wasn't until I was maybe 28, 29-ish, it's like a year or two ago, that I really, internalized what FI had bought me. Like all that hard work, all those late nights, all those weeks of working 80 plus hours. Like it just, really took a while for it to sink in. But at this point, I feel like Lauren and I are kind of living our ideal FI life. And I know in that chapter, I kind of map out like this is what our average day looks like when we're at home. So we do travel for three to four months out of the year. We can talk about that. I do like to work in seasons, but while we're home, Like Lauren and I love to kind of stick to a routine. And we have these monthly meetings every month that we kind of review how the previous month went and how the next month is going. And if ever we're out of alignment with those values, if there's ever something like, hey, you know, this past month, I didn't feel as healthy as I wanted to be. Or I think we focused too much on business or actually really would like to focus more on my business. Then we just course correct accordingly. So for me, it's just like checks and balances. It's kind of set my destination. This is what I want my ideal life to look like. And that's gonna look different for every person than taking an honest look at my calendar, my bank statements, my credit card statements, and make sure both of those things are in perfect alignment. And if they're not, then you probably wanna cut some things or add some things if there's things that are extra or things that are missing. for me, it's just been like a constant, it's not like a, you know, do this thing once and set it and forget it, like index funds. It's kind of a work in progress where every single month, Lauren and I are revisiting those values, making sure we're living in alignment with those values.
Losing Your Identity After a High-Performing Career
Justin: Yeah. I really struggled, as I said, the first nine months because I spent 10 years being the top sales performer at my company in SF Bay Area, Silicon Valley. So I was selling into all the hottest, so to speak, tech companies in the world. I didn't realize how much my identity was tied to being this high performing salesperson within the world of technology. And my ego loved it. And I'll be open about that. Loved being the top performer, loved that I could say, yes, I've been to all these incredible, you know, Uber, Lyft, Reddit, OpenAI. Like I visited OpenAI when there were 30 people. And, you know, now there are this massive company leading the AI revolution. And then when I no longer was that person, it was like, who am I? And so I struggled because I think a lot of FI people, and maybe I'm wrong, but my perception has been a lot of FI people define themselves as overachievers, which is great because it causes them to achieve financial independence. They apply that energy of achievement towards the financial independence journey, but then when they hit financial independence, it's like we don't know how to turn that off. And so if we don't have something to apply that overachieving energy to, we can feel disoriented, depressed, insecure, et cetera. so instead of dealing with that, for me, I immediately just decided, okay, why don't I figure out how to make half a million dollars a year with my online business? Because prior to leaving the nine to five job, I had started a, an online fitness and coaching business as well as a podcast. And my thought process was, why don't I just build a course? So I built my first course and I spent months building it because anyone who's ever built a course the first time fucking takes forever because you've never, you've never done it before. And I know, I know you've been through this process too. And part of the problem was the, what I was consuming when it came to content. So I discovered Justin Welsh and Dan Koe and they're incredible creators. They both have.
Cody: Yeah.
Justin: been solo entrepreneurs doing well over a million dollars a year. And you tend to be heavily influenced by what you're reading and consuming. So I was reading their newsletters, listening to podcast interviews, and I was like, all right, now that I'm no longer a high achieving salesperson, I'll just become a high achieving solo entrepreneur. But I missed. the whole point of the fact that I was already financially independent, I had more than enough money. My original FI number was 1.5 million. By the time I was... let go from my company because we got acquired, I was at 2.7 million. but I was on this default mode of making money. So I just decided to go from high achieving salesperson to high achieving solo entrepreneur. And I'm not, I don't regret building the course. think that was a great experience for me and something I'm proud of, but I wish I had said to myself, I'm just gonna take the first six to 12 months to do nothing and decompress. So I'm gonna pause, because I talked a lot, and I'm just curious, thoughts, reflections, your own experience, or even what you've seen other people go through.
Everyone Needs a Quest: Finding Your North Star in Early Retirement
Cody: Yeah. So this is definitely different because I think for me, since I quit corporate so early on, I've always kind of been in the make my own schedule, side hustle type of world. But I think I did hammer the side hustle entrepreneurship a little too hard at the beginning. And I've been candid about this before. I had like 20 plus side hustles at one point. But since then I've scaled back. I think for me, and I'm curious if you're the same way, like I don't want to be the person that even though I'm fine, that does nothing. And I think this is tying back into the seasons thing. Like I love working extremely hard for like a month or two at a time. Like it fires me up. Like when I was gearing up for the book launch, when I was finishing the book, when I was first building my online courses, I kind of love the rush of working sometimes like 60 to 80 hour weeks. And maybe that's just because I'm a freak and I have this entrepreneurial bug. for me, I like that. But I also like taking two months off and working an hour a day or less. And financial freedom has afforded me that opportunity. I'm a huge fan of working in seasons. I don't know if you're the same way, Justin, where like, I get a thrill out of working hard and building something. Like I'm just a creator at heart, whether it's building a business, whether it's just creating something artistic, something where I'm expressing myself, something where I'm teaching other people, making an impact. There's just this bug that's always been in me since childhood. I mean, I've just. I've always just been a creator doing stuff. Just, feel like at this point now I don't have to create like my life depends on it. Cause I have enough money where I could just take a month off or take a week off of I'm feeling burnt out or completely pivot. I could just uproot whatever business I'm working on and be like, screw it. I'm moving on to the next thing. I'm gonna start this new passion project. That was kind of what I did with the book. And yeah, I'm curious if you're the same way though. If you, I feel like because you were such a high powered salesperson, like, I mean, you got up to like 900K in income. Obviously you're a super hardworking dude. There's probably still that drive that you just like can't shut off. And that wants to perform sometimes, it just doesn't want to always have to be turned on, kind of like how we were wired when we first went down this FI path.
Justin: Yes. So... Yes with nuance. So I'll explain.
Cody: Okay.
Justin: Part one, I think I'm still figuring out what work is to me in this phase of my life. Because I did work in corporate for 10 years. Prior to that, I worked in the nightclub business and really did entrepreneurship within the nightclub business, had my own company. And then, Went into corporate for 10 years and I was at a startup. So it was, it was not like I was in office. Five days a week. I worked from home. Most of the time I went in the office for my company, maybe once a month, but I spent pre COVID two to three days a week going to San Francisco and visiting clients. So that. Type of freedom was really important to me. I don't think I could have ever done a nine to five where I was physically in an office for five days a week, 40 hours a week. I probably would have been severely depressed. So, and I learned that about myself because before I went into the nightclub business, I about a year and a half of, internships and investment banking at companies like Morgan Stanley. And I was. It was clear to me that was not the life for me. So I pursued the nightlife industry for a while, then found the startup tech world, which is very flexible. So. Recap part one for me is I'm still figuring out work in early retirement. I currently. have found that I like to work about 10 to 15 hours a week, podcasting, writing my newsletter. I love writing and speaking. So for me, that is work when I do it. I feel that I'm in my zone of genius where it's flow state for me. It's very enjoyable. It doesn't mean it's always easy, but it means I'm always proud of that work that I do. And that includes content creation. So I've mostly been focused on threads because it's a writing platform and I just really love to write. And I still work with about five to 10 clients. So there's usually a few coaching calls a week, but I am obsessed with pickleball and I probably do 20 to 30 hours a week of pickleball. yes, so this is where that energy that you were talking about is still alive. So I've already today drilled for an hour and played for two hours.
Cody: 30 hours? Wow. Mm-hmm.
Justin: And the day I play almost seven days a week and then playing for three to five plus hours a day between playing games and drilling. So that is where right now that overachiever is still very much alive. And obviously, well, maybe it's not obvious. I'm not making any money from pickleball because I'm not creating content. haven't built a. brand or a online content around pickleball because I'm just obsessed with it. And the challenge I've given myself is to see if within three years of starting to play, I can make it to the semi-pro or pro level. And I don't care if I do or don't, it's just one of those challenges for myself to see, let's see what we can do. And we're going to have a. done a fun on the journey. And if we never make it, oh, well, it was time well spent because I have so much fucking fun. And so that's where 100 percent I'm with you. I fucking love to work. I love to drill. I love to put in the work at pickleball. So and that's been really joyful for me because I'm not there's I'm not chasing it for the money. Now, if I make it to the pro level, obviously there will be money. But that's not why my goal isn't to go pro to make money as a pickleball player. It's more as a personal challenge to see, do I have the capacity? Do I have the ability to get there? And if I don't, again, it was an incredibly fun experience. And as far as I'm concerned, pickleball will probably be a lifelong thing I do because through the journey of pickleball and I just hit my one year of playing. started April 12th. It's May 14th. So I've been playing for a little basically 13 months and it's been so amazing. have a hundred plus new pickleball friends. I see the same 20 to 50 plus people multiple times every week and I'm so fucking happy. Like it's crazy. And I laugh at myself because My life revolves around a plastic wiffle ball now. So that's where I'm still very much. You know, you asked me if I was similar to you where I still love to work. Yeah, I absolutely love to work. And that is channeled at pickleball and then 10 to 15 hours of speaking, writing, and coaching, which is really fun for me.
Cody: Hahaha
Justin: And it's the right balance of different types of work. So there's the physical work of pickleball. There is the mental work of speaking or writing. And then there's the mental, emotional, spiritual work of coaching and empowering other people on their journey. So long-winded answer. Yeah.
Cody: I'm so glad you went here. Yeah, no, that was awesome. Because it was funny the last time I was on your podcast, you asked me the three questions at the end and I mentioned for health and fitness, my like one tactic hack skill was challenges. And I didn't know like, you were that into pickleball. I know I jokingly said, we got to play when I come out to Cali. Now I'm a little less excited to play because you're going to scrape me. But dude, yeah, that I think that's awesome. And I'm the same way. think we're wired so similarly. Like it's not just business. I like to challenge myself. I'm doing HYROX is I'm running marathons. Like I like to push myself in every facet of my life. I just like to have a North star. Like I don't make more money in business now. And my businesses are continuing to grow. I'm just working smarter, not harder. I don't push just $4 for dollar sake. I push because I like to get to the next level. It's like a video game to me, whether that's my physical health, whether that's a business, whether that's anything, I just like to try to push it and see if I can get to that next level. So it sounds like we're very similarly wired in that. And I like to kind of bucket things too, like you had mentioned, you have stuff that you do for your mind, for your spirit, for your body, and you're pushing yourself in all three of those arenas. So yeah, for me, I'm constantly pushing in one of those buckets, like even when I'm traveling, you know, I might be working out harder or Lauren and I might have more one-on-one time we're building our relationship stronger. like, I'm just constantly pushing myself in one of those arenas. And I think that's become more and more apparent to me in my freedom, how important having some kind of a North Star, having something that I'm driving toward is to me.
Justin: Yes, I think every person always needs to be on a quest. And it could be a quest of entrepreneurship, could be a quest of physical fitness. could be a sports challenge, like a HYROX or competing in pickleball. It could be a quest to do some healing.
Cody: I like that.
Justin: in a specific area of your life, maybe relationships or Whatever. I think when people get bored in life or uninspired, it's because they're not on a quest that is exciting to them. And the cool thing about quests is you can there's infinite number of quests. There's, you know, HYROX, pickleball. side hustle taking your marriage to the net 100 %
Cody: Playing the piano. Yeah, I mean learning a language. Yeah, let's hope there's so many
Justin: Yes. And I think it's just deciding. I love that you use the word North Star. Just that deciding, hey, here's a North Star that I want to pursue. And this is the quest I'm focused on right now. And you can be on multiple quests at the same time. And you can be on a quest and then discover a side quest and take a detour and then come back to that original quest. There's no right or wrong way to pursue a quest. So I 100 % love that. That we're I think most people honestly who pursue financial independence are at least somewhat similarly wired because financial independence is a quest. It's in for most it's a 10 to 20 year quest. But if you're on that journey. I mean, I still remember when I first discovered financial independence, how fucking excited I was to climb that. And it's just I decided to go crazy like you and let's climb this mountain as fucking fast as possible while having as much fun as possible. So I want to. So any thoughts on that before I kind of do a slight. back turn because I want to talk about the decompression period that I went through. But any thoughts before I go back there?
Cody: mean, we could talk about this topic for a whole podcast episode, but I'm happy to back turn and pivot a bit as well, but wherever you want to go.
The Decompression Period Nobody Warns You About
Justin: Yeah, so one of the things that I realized kind of after the fact is the fact that I actually needed to decompression because I was in this super fast paced environment of the technology startup world, which there's this relentless push to grow to 10X the company's growth every year. So it's like 100 % year over year growth. year after year after year after year. And if you're not doing that, it's like, what are we doing here? And I felt like I, after I stopped and moved from Menlo Park, which is really the center of the whole technology, I was literally a mile and a half from Sand Hill Row, which is where all of the venture capital firms are the biggest ones that fund all these tech. technology companies. was two and a half, three miles from Meta headquarters, three and a half miles from Google headquarters. And I was in this innovation vortex that had so much pressure to grow. And I thrived in it, but I didn't realize how much pressure there was because in that 10 year journey in that world, I could rarely be in bed for more than seven hours. Because after about six hours, maybe six and a half, seven, I'd wake up and as hard as I tried, I could never go back to sleep. So I just get up. So that 10 year timeframe, I was probably getting five and a half to six and a half hours of sleep most nights. which is not the eight to nine that they recommend. And I thought I was totally fine, but I feel like when I finally exited that world, we moved to Santa Cruz, which is really on the outskirts or even slightly outside of that whole technology. atmosphere I fucking slept 10 to 12 hours every single night for 12 months straight
Cody: Wow.
Justin: I'm not joking. Every night I will get in bed and I wouldn't get out of bed for 10 to 12 hours later. And I think that was my body's way of saying, Hey, we just pushed really hard for 10 years. Now we're going to rest and rejuvenate. for all the lack of sleep over the last decade.
Cody: That's crazy.
Justin: Yeah. And fortunately I was financially dependent, so it didn't matter. And even though I was getting up and then working on my course, the first six, seven months of early retirement, there was no pressure to wake up and get it done. I was on my own timeline. And when I read Jillian Johnsrud's Roots book,
Cody: Retire Often?
Justin: Retire Often, she talked about a lot of people who take these mini retirements. The first month or three, they just sleep. And I was like, that's what I was doing. Okay. so that made a lot of sense. So I think the reason I wanted to circle back to this is because again, I think so many financial independence pursuers are overachievers that rarely take the time to
Cody: Yeah.
Justin: decompress and rest. And in retrospect, now looking back 25 months later, I realized how important it was for me to just give myself the space and time to have that decompression. And I'm just curious if you've experienced any of that or talk to other people about the, that decompression process. Cause you, you have. a part in the book where he talked about.
Cody: Yeah, I definitely experienced this to a degree. I think this is where the working in season. So it's almost like what Jillian talks about her Retire Often strategy. That's why Lauren and I will go take a month off multiple times throughout the year. It's just like a breathe, recalibrate. It's a lot of times where I do my best thinking is when we're on a trip somewhere else and I'll be like, wow, I actually maybe worked a little bit too hard this past month. Like I, you know, skipped an afternoon walk because I had to get that thing done or I had to record that podcast. And I'm like, what the heck am I doing? Like we love our afternoon walks. So sometimes, I mean, even within the past six months, I've caught myself working too hard and maybe pushing some of the things that I say I prioritize to the side. Like I'm skipping, not skipping. I usually make it to the gym every day, but to cutting a gym session short or skipping an afternoon walk or I'm not able to like watch a show with Lauren that we've been watching together, like because I have to work. And I'm like, I don't have to work. What have I said? What am I doing? Like I have enough money. This, this can wait till tomorrow. So I don't know if it's as big of a decompression period as you're talking about where I'm like sleeping for 12 hours for a year straight. Luckily I was prioritizing sleep throughout kind of the whole entrepreneurial journey. Maybe not so much the first three years, but I was also like 22 through 25. I didn't need too much sleep. My body was on a recovery over time. But yeah, I definitely have to decompress. And I think the best way for me to do that is the working in seasons, taking those vacations as a way to recalibrate and assess. And I just feel like whenever you come back from a longer vacation, this doesn't usually happen if you're on like a seven day all inclusive, you're just getting drunk every day and eating crappy food and you need another vacation when you come back. if you go on like a true slow travel vacation, you're away for multiple weeks or multiple months. you have a really good perspective on what your home life looks like. Like you finally get outside of the jar and you can read the label and be like, wow, I really don't like the way I'm living at home. I need to make some changes. Like I don't like the way I look. I don't like the way I feel. don't like how many hours I'm spending at work. I don't like that I'm not spending enough time with my kids. And I feel like going on one of these mini retirements, if you will, is a really good way to reflect on that. And then when you come home, you can formulate a new game plan and hopefully, start to realign your life to live more in line with your values.
The Power of Compounding: From $75K to $5 Million
Justin: Yeah, I want to provide context for the audience. So your current net worth as of May 2026 is
Cody: 5.1 million.
Justin: So, and your original FI number was?
Cody: like one and a half million.
Justin: Yeah. And as I mentioned, my, my original was 1.5 and I'm at 3.5 million and there's two things I want to point out in that. Number one, you really don't fucking need to make any more money, but you still enjoy making money, but you have discovered for you that working in seasons. And then also I love that you brought up the. the traveling and getting outside of your day-to-day, week-to-week normal world so that you can then look at it from the outside and say, hey, I like this part of it. This part, not so much. We got to make some changes when we go back. And I think that is so valuable because it's similar to what I was talking about when I was inside this innovation vortex. I just could not see how much pressure I was under because that was the water that I was in and I didn't even know I was in the water. And it wasn't until I got outside of the fishbowl and looked back at the old version of me and being like, Jesus, you were sleeping like five and a half to six and a half hours. That's insane. That's not good long term. But.
Cody: You
Justin: And this was despite I had the time to sleep. I just couldn't sleep because of the pressure. And so I think. That getting out of your. Normal life, quote unquote. And I think travel is such a beautiful way to do that, because then you have the physical distance. And also the emotional, spiritual, mental distance from your day to day life. And when you're in a nine to five job, most times you don't take more than a week or two off. And I would argue that two weeks off, even maybe three is not enough to give you the perspective to look at that normal day to day life. But then once you are in a position where you're financially independent and then you can go on a two, three month vacation, like I know you do, then you can really have the time to decompress from your normal life and then look at it honestly. And I love that you bring that up because I think that is another really important factor for those who do achieve financial independence and retire early, getting out of your life by going on some slow travel or doing something that forces you outside of that so you can look at it and see what you like and don't like is really powerful. And then secondly, the point I wanted to make about the net worth thing is, do you remember when you came with Grant to do the book tour for Grant's book at Stanford 2019. Do you remember what your approximate net worth was back then?
Cody: The book tour? Yeah, 2019 at Stanford. Yeah, of course. Maybe 75k? Yeah.
Justin: Okay, yes. So what the point or what I want to illustrate is Cody went down the entrepreneurial route to financial independence, which I think is the hardest route, but it's also potentially the fastest. And then once you've built it, it just keeps growing because 2019 I was probably at a million million and a half. So you were at 75k. I was maybe around a million. And now you're at five and a half and I'm at three and a half. And I think that's fucking awesome because If you have the courage and the tenacity to stick at the entrepreneurial stuff, you can make so much money. And if you do it right, you can make it fairly passive, not 100 % passive. But Cody, I think you've done such an incredible job of building up multiple different revenue streams through real estate, through digital products. where you did go through these heavy work seasons where you're working 40, 50 hours a week for who knows multiple months at a time. But then eventually you built the infrastructure to make those fairly passive so that you then could go take a three month vacation. And because you knew you're going to take these three months, four months vacations, you had to build businesses that were semi-passive. So I want you to just pause, want you to talk about your own journey to creating businesses that actually allowed you to go take a three or four month, but the money kept coming.
Building Systems and SOPs So Your Business Runs Without You
Cody: Okay, this is a great question. And one thing I want to say, just one thing I want to mention, because I've interviewed 300 plus people now at this point in my podcast, I think a lot of the people who say they feel stuck after they hit FI, and they quit their job, are the people that just kind of stay at home, and they just are in their quote unquote, regular routine, but in the same exact spot. So it's like, instead of going to the job, they don't have the commute anymore. They're just like, they plop on the couch, and then they're like, what do I do now? But I really urge people, even if you're not a big traveler, I mean, go to the next state over and say, go 30 minutes away and sit in Airbnb, just like changing your environment can really, really help. There's some people who can do it. They might be able to just stay in their same exact spot and kind of reevaluate their life and their values and then start living in accordance to those values. I know for me, like even having a separation of like, where you're like for people who work at home, having a separation, like we have an office, it's a separation between work and you know, where you're watching Netflix. It's really difficult. I've had a couple times where I was in living situations where I'm like working in the same exact place that I'm watching TV later that night with my friends or my wife or whatever. It's really hard to separate those things out. So I think actually having that physical space away from your normal routine, if that's possible for you, can just do so many wonders for your mental health and your clarity and same analogy, being able to see the label on the outside of the jar versus like when you were in SF. you're kind of just swimming in the water and you have no idea you're even in that water until you go into a different pond. I'm forcing the analogy here, but you get my point. Like actually moving physical locations, even if it's, you could move a couple of, you could rent the house down the street. You could stay at your parents' house. You could stay at a friend's house for a couple of months. Like whatever that looks like to you, whatever's feasible in your life, try to do that because it's going to just provide so much clarity. Now, to answer your question about kind of how to build, systems that scale, businesses that run passively. This is the difference between entrepreneurship and corporate and why I probably didn't have as much burnout as people I've seen in corporate, the hundreds of people I've interviewed. So in entrepreneurship, if you can set up good systems, good processes, good SOPs, standard operating procedures, like if you have everything mapped out, then you can pretty easily hire on help to then delegate. And then all of a sudden, all of that work, gets taken off your plate. And if you have enough margin in whatever business you're running, boom, you're essentially making passive income. Now, passive income is a spectrum, like you alluded to, it's not like 100 % passive or 100 % active, like something might be 90 % passive, something might be 50 % passive. to me, I'm like, if there's anything, if it's not 100 % active, that's awesome. Like if you can get any percentage of passive income, that's amazing. If you don't have to trade your time for money directly. So for me, like you said, I spend a lot of time energy or money at the beginning of any venture. So that's with my real estate properties, like making sure that I have just rock solid. This is how we screen tenants. This is how we do a proper turnover. These are the types of things we need to update when we're buying a fixer upper. This is X, Y, and Z. So I have all these things mapped out. So then if I need to delegate to someone or I need someone else to pick up the slack, it's already all written out. So I think a lot of people, entrepreneurs, side hustlers, they... kick themselves because they don't write down their processes, they just store it all in their head, and then they wonder why they're scrambling, working 100 hour weeks, and they're like, I'm drowning in entrepreneurship. If you build good systems at the start, and you have a profitable business with enough margin, you can then hire on help to run that business. So like, my main business, Gold City Ventures, when we started in 2019, not gonna lie to you guys, like I was working 80 plus hour weeks for months at the beginning. We were building multiple online courses, we were like, mind mapping out our community, what all of our product offerings were gonna look like. We were building all these complicated email marketing funnels and sequences and it was a lot of work. But now I can go and travel for three months and work a couple minutes a day, just like checking in on Slack and making sure that we have a team of 16 now, making sure that everyone's doing their job and that there's no crazy fires going on. But it's because we built out such good systems so that some person could just plug and play. We're like, hey, this is how you... respond in the Facebook group. This is how you manage the admin area. This is how you respond to X, Y, or Z. This is how you manage the affiliate system. So like, since all these things are mapped out, we use Asana for this, it just becomes infinitely easier to then pass the puck to someone else. I highly, highly urge you, even if you think, if you're like, oh, I'm just starting out though, like why would I bother building out SOPs and like recording my process? You will thank me later because it's gonna suck when one day you're like, man, this business is so stressful, it's so hard, I wanna hire on help. Now I have to go and create all these SOPs. But it's like, if you're already doing this stuff, literally just like click record. If you're doing an online South hustle, click record on your computer screen, use a free program like Loom. Be like, okay, this is how I create a blog post. talking about podcasting, this is how I edit a podcast. Like I have all these SOPs that I used to do for my podcast. I'm like, this is exactly how I edit a podcast. It's like an hour long video. I just gave it to our podcast editor. and now he does it perfectly just like I did it. This is how I do the show notes. Gave him a full process. Now he does it perfectly just like I would do it. So like you do the thing first, you get it to a point where you're happy. Like this is as perfect as I can do it. Record that process, whatever that looks like. It could be an over the shoulder video. If it's an in-person thing, it could just be like a written checklist, whatever that looks like. Create that SOP, that standard operating procedure. And then when you hand that to someone else to take over, they're gonna make way fewer mistakes than if you just like hired someone on you're like, Hey, I need help with email marketing or hey, I need help. This person called out, can you fill in? If you don't have these things set up, then it's just gonna be so much harder and your business is gonna run pretty sloppily. But if you do these from the start, you'll be able to build a pretty passive business.
Justin: Question for system building. Are there any specific books courses or creators? That you feel are great resources for someone who's looking to create the systems in their business that will give them the freedom that they desire
Cody: course. I think probably the best book for this is called Traction. And there's this system, it's called the Entrepreneurial Operating System, EOS. That is one that's extremely helpful in figuring out how to kind of scale yourself out of your business. Even the The 4-Hour Workweek, that's a book that I always go back to. mean, Tim was like way on top of the stuff. He was all about building SOPs. Then he was like hiring VAs from India to like run his businesses for him for like $2 an hour back in 2007 or whatever he wrote that book. It's crazy. Those are two good ones. Let's see, Profit First is another good book on entrepreneurship and just how to run a business. Those are probably three good, those are probably my top three recommendations. Those are the one coming to me off the top of my head. let's, let's start with those. Then people can expand based on what they like, what they don't like.
Justin: We will put links to those books in the show notes. also a couple notes on hiring help. There's always an onboarding process. So even though you build the SOPs, there's going to be a back and forth iteration of teaching that person how to do things the way you want them done. And the sooner you do that, the sooner you become free. The longer you put off hiring that person and going through that process, the longer you stay chained to a business that you've built. And I think a lot of times people are afraid to go through that work. it's gonna be so much work to teach someone how to do what I do. And it's like, motherfucker, if you ever wanna be free, this is what you have to do.
Cody: You Yeah, yeah, it's the harsh reality, but I think like you said, wait way too long until their business is this monstrosity of all these little pieces that they're keeping in their head. like, I do my show notes this specific way with my podcast. I do X, Y, and Z this specific way. It's like, well, you can shove all the nuance you want into these SOPs, but it's way easier if you start documenting from the beginning versus just trying to set out like one week to get everything that you know. in your brain just dumped onto a piece of paper or into a series of videos. It's extremely hard. like do it now while it's fresh, while you're still doing it. And then the hiring process will be infinitely easier.
The 1,200-Day Email Sequence and the “Leaky Bucket” Problem
Justin: Yes. And if you're building a digital business, Cody did this incredible talk at FinCon in 2025 about his, what was it? 1200 day email list? How many are.
Cody: Yeah, 1200 days of emails. So like if you sign into one of our lead magnets, one of our opt-ins, you will have emails coming to you for the next four years without us pressing a single button.
Justin: Is that, was that talk recorded? Is that something I could include in the show notes? Do you know?
Cody: I think it's on YouTube. I think. That's a question for the FinCon folks. I think it's somewhere. I think it's on YouTube. I just don't know if it's like behind a paywall since it might only be for FinCon attendees. I'm not sure.
Justin: Okay, I'll see if I can find it. Yes. Yeah. I'll see if I can put it in the show notes. If not, Cody, just to give a overview of it, he basically walked through how he thought about building a 1200 day email sequence using Kit, which is a, uh, email automation as well as newsletter. Uh, software slash app. It's what I use to write my newsletter. It's, it's what a lot of creators use and. The high level bird's eye view is Cody wrote it a few weeks at a time over multiple, multiple months. So it wasn't like he sat down and wrote 1200 different emails.
Cody: Mm-hmm.
Justin: in a week, he focused on building what's the first two weeks of this email sequence look like. OK, then how do we expand it to four weeks? Then how do we expand it to eight weeks? Then how we expand it to 12 weeks and over a period of I don't know how many months it took you to create this 1200 day email? Yeah, but that's what you did that now gives you the freedom.
Cody: You years, probably.
Justin: to go on these three, four, five months trips and only work one or two minutes a day is because the machine, the digital machine has been built and all the automation is in there and you put in the upfront work of building that system that then makes it so you're continuing. I know you don't care about sharing your numbers. How much on average do you make a month right now?
Cody: Mm-hmm. Um, between like 80 and 90 K take home.
Justin: Yeah. Which is, and this motherfucker is 30 years old and going on four or five month vacations. So this is the power of systems building inside your entrepreneur endeavors is that work will compound over time. So Cody didn't start out making 80, $90,000 a month. At first it was a couple hundred a month and then he kept building the systems, kept building out the different product offerings. And now, how long have you been on the entrepreneur, actually when did you start Gold City Ventures?
Cody: 2019, summer 2019.
Justin: Yeah. So seven years later, his business is making $80, $90,000 a month and he has the ability to go on multi-month vacation anytime he wants. So yeah, it's.
Cody: building the systems, man. Yeah, I'm such a huge fan of anything scalable. I think we talked about this before, but I think most people, I mean, most people do trade their time for money, whether it's at a day job or even with side hustles. Like when you ask someone name a couple side hustles, it's often Uber, it's DoorDash. It's like all these things that are trading time for money. Most people don't think scalable side hustles. That's not the first thing that comes to mind, but hopefully like me spreading my message and writing the book and talking about it all the time. people will start to learn that like, you don't always have to be trading your dollars for hours. You can build, buy, create things that will pay you in perpetuity if you build them right.
Justin: Yeah. And this is what I'm actually in the process of doing largely inspired by your talk at FinCon is I'm building that backend automation. Literally I'm in the middle of building my forever sequence, which is what I'm, what I'm calling the, you know, Cody's 1200 day is how do I start to build the same thing so that I can build a suite of different products and services?
Cody: Love it.
Justin: that sell automatically through automation. And go ahead.
Cody: I this is where a lot of people miss the ball. So I have a lot of friends who have huge followings on social media and I don't have that big following on social media. I have a huge email list though, cause that's where I focus my time, but not to sound cocky, but like I'm making multiples more than the people who have way more people following because they have what's called a leaky bucket problem. Like there's so many people coming into the top of the bucket, like seeing their content, interacting with them. They may be have hundreds of thousands of followers on these platforms. but there's nothing that they just spill out of the sides of the bucket. There's no funnel, bringing them to a product or to some kind of a course or opportunity or anything like that. And like so many people have this problem. It's like a lot of people are just constantly chasing like sponsorships. And if they don't like create a collab video with some big company that month, like, you there goes all the money for that month because they have not spent the time building the system. So if you're someone who has that same problem, I see it way too often in the communities that I'm running in and I'm trying to help people and steer them in the right direction. Like you need to have some kind of a funnel and funnel is kind of a, it's got a negative connotation, but basically all it is is think of a bucket. You need the bucket flowing down to something that later on down the road brings you money or else you're just going to be creating forever and you can never be off. You can never take a vacation because you're just in this constant content creation. hamster wheel and I've seen just way, way too many people do it. I mean, even newsletter businesses, like there's some people that are, if you're just writing a fresh newsletter every week, like you can never take a week off from writing that thing. Like if you have automated emails set up, like those things are going out regardless of whether or not you're typing that email, regardless of whether or not you're on a vacation with your family. So there's so much of the stuff that you can set up in advance and set up on autopilot. So, and I'm not saying skimp, like you don't wanna be, putting out shitty content to your audience. That's not what I'm saying at all. Like we spent a crazy amount of time on these emails that are, they just happen to be automated. Like there's a ton of value. People are replying to them on the daily. Like, thank you so much. This email was so helpful, but it just might've been an email that we wrote four years ago, but we just made it timeless and made it super value and action packed and people love them. So I'm not saying like skimp on quality, be lazy, just put these things on autopilot. Like it still does take work at the beginning, but it's work hard once. and then reap the benefit of that work for years to come.
Justin: Yeah. And just to give a little insight for those who are curious. So a funnel is basically just think of any type of like visual diagram of a funnel. So it's like an upside down triangle. There's the top of funnel, which in the world of digital business is usually social media. So it's gaining attraction. How do you get eyes on who you are and what you do? And then it's converting those, those Instagram views, likes, follows into the middle of the funnel, which could be an email sequence. And then at the bottom of the funnel is those people are on your sales page, looking at your product and deciding whether or not they want to purchase your product or service. And this is, there's, course, there's always bad connotation to the business terms that we use, but this is the same thing in sales, which I did for 10 years. There's top of funnel, middle of funnel, and the bottom of the funnel. And in my corporate sales, top of funnel was email, middle of funnel was, okay, we got the pitch. And then bottom of the funnel was, we're now negotiating the deal. of selling our services into this large tech company. So it's just a way for you to frame and see how business is flowing through whatever your business is. And it's really important. And I, if you can let go of the negative connotation to sales, the truth is we're all selling something, whether it's convincing our spouse to do X, Y, and Z with us. whether it's getting your kid to do something, go to bed on time, whatever it is, whether it's asking your boss for a raise, we're always, all of us are always selling. Even with our friends, it's like, hey, do you wanna go this restaurant? You're selling them on that restaurant. And so I think sales is amazing and it's evergreen skilled and the better you get at it, the better you are at all areas of life, whether that's your...
Cody: Mm-hmm.
Structuring Your Days Around Your Values, Not a Job
Justin: relationship with your spouse, whether that's your business or anything else you want to do. want to, again, do a crazy back turn. One of the things I experienced in the beginning, and you talk about this in the book, is too much fucking free time. Because when I first left the corporate job,
Cody: Yeah.
Justin: there was always something to do. And I never worked a lot of hours, but there was always work to do. There's endless amount of work to do. And then when I didn't have a job that had endless work to do, I literally got to a point where I was depressed because I felt like I didn't know what to do with all the time that I had. So that was a very real thing. Eventually I figured out, okay, let's put that time towards building a course towards playing pickleball. But it took me many months to figure that out. And I'm just, you talk about the importance of creating structure in your day. So I want you to talk about that.
The Transition Period: Getting Comfortable in the Unknown
Cody: I think this goes back to your quest talk because I think for so many people, myself included, some days, like I remember the first time I ever felt this was my first day at college. And I didn't have parents to tell me what to do. And I'm like, I can eat whatever I want. I can do whatever I want. I can stay up as late as I want. You just, I just felt so free and you know, went through college, started working again. I get the same exact feeling except now with a lot more on the line. I was more of a quote unquote adult. when I hit FI, I'm like, okay, this is kind of crazy. Like a lot of people, you know, complain about having to go to work and then they try to squeeze other things in and the interim and their free time when they get home or whatever. But I'm like, now I have all the time in the world. If I set a goal, if I say I want to do something and I don't do it, there is nobody to blame except me. There's no work. There's no I don't have enough time. It's like if I said I wanted to get a six pack, if I said I wanted to learn Spanish. If I said I wanted to become really good at guitar and I didn't do that thing, that is a 100 % Cody problem. It's not a money problem. It's not a time problem. And so it's kind of a scary thing. Like when, when some of these other things aren't the issue, then it's just, it's all you. It's all you. You just have to look in the mirror, take a really hard look and be like, I guess I really didn't want X, Y, or Z, whatever that thing was that I sought out to do. Because clearly, If I have all the time in the world, if I don't have to be doing anything else today and I'm choosing to do other things, I'm procrastinating on this thing that I say is so important to me. And yeah, man, you just have to take like a real honest look. And there was a couple of times where I kind of had that same realization where I'm like, okay, why am I, it always comes back to working too hard because I just have this crazy entrepreneurial bug. Like, why the heck am I working so hard? Like I'm not where I want to be physically. I'm not spending as much time on some of the hobbies that I said I wanted to spend time on. I'm not spending enough time with my family, not spending enough time hanging out with Lauren. It's like, so kind of like what I was saying before, I have to always kind of come back to that North star and realign how I'm living each day with the values that I set out to live by. So I'm a huge fan of what you saying before with structuring my day. So. Cody Berman (01:01:30.698) kind of knowing what's going, it's the quests. I have multiple different quests going at any given time, but like that gives me structure in my day. It's like, okay, from, you know, 8 a.m. to 10 a.m., I'm going to the gym and I might be training for my HYROX competition. From 10 to 12, I might be working on this business, because I'm really loving learning X, Y, Z in this business right now. you know, spending, I'm going on an hour walk with Lauren for lunch, like, because that's part of my relationship quest. like. All of these little quests kind of helped me build structure throughout my day. And I think if you don't have that, FI can become extremely overwhelming and it can become depressing. Because again, if you're not doing all the things you set out to do, if you think FI is gonna be this magical world that you just pop into, it's like Narnia, the second you hit it, you're gonna be sadly mistaken. You're gonna get punched in the face by reality. Because if you don't build out these habits, if you don't set to live your life with intention, like before you hit FI, if you're not building, that dream life, like during the journey, it's not just gonna magically happen when that number shows up in your bank account or once you have enough passive income coming in every month. Like you have to build it out intentionally. Justin David Carl (01:02:38.034) Yeah. A couple of thoughts and reflections. One, I think for people who take the route that I took where you're working a job and achieving financial independence from that standpoint, when you get to retirement, there is going to be a transition phase from working a job to being a hundred percent on your own. to do whatever you want. And you may or may not know what the next thing is. And I, I think there's often in the FI community and you even said it in the book that you should be retiring to something. And recently I've been hearing conversations from people like Doug Cunnington from Mile High FI that You don't have to have something to retire to, but you will then need to go through a transition period where you figure out what the next thing is. And I had to go through this because even though I had something to retire to, which was my podcast and my coaching business and any other online business stuff I wanted to build out, but I still went through this. whole process of not really knowing what was next for my life. And I read this amazing book called Transitions by William Bridges. And in the book, he talks about there is this in-between time between what you were doing and then the next thing that you're doing. And the in-between time is very fucking uncomfortable. but it is a necessary process for each person to go through. And when I read that it was a integral process of a transition, I was able to calm down and just be okay with not knowing what I was gonna do next and starting to explore different things. And that's when randomly, Justin David Carl (01:05:05.094) I'm messaging with a friend saying, hey, do you want to go for a hike or you want to go maybe try pickleball? And he responded, let's go do pickleball. And then I found the fucking next thing. But I didn't know it even until a week or two after, because I suddenly became obsessed and it wasn't until probably actually a few months into playing pickleball. I'm like, holy shit, this is the next thing. This is the next quest for me. Right. And then that gave me energy that I that being on this pickleball quest gave me energy for my business, for my marriage. And so the point I want to make for the audience is it's OK if you do have something to retire to. It's OK if you don't just know that either way you're likely going to go through a transition period where you're it's uncertain what the next phase of your life is. And that's just an integral part of it. And if you can kind of relax into the unknown. and just start exploring with no expectation of a certain outcome, eventually you will stumble upon the next thing and you will get re-inspired. You'll find that next quest and you will be on the journey again. Cody Berman (01:06:20.49) So I think I mostly agree with that. I think where I not somewhat disagree, I'm actually curious your thoughts on this as well. I think even in your scenario, like you're still living even before you quit corporate, you're still living in alignment with your values. Like, okay, let's say you were for a decade saying, I wanna get in good shape. And in corporate, you were just eating Cheetos, you're a hundred pounds overweight, you're never working out. That wasn't you. You were still working out like a maniac. You were freaking shredded dude, while you were still working in corporate. Yes, like fitness might be the value that you're going after and that might come out in different forms. It might come out in pickleball once you have more time, but it's not like you were completely neglecting it and then hoping that once you hit FI, you're going all in on fitness. So that's kind of my point when I'm saying people living in alignment with their values. Like, of course you're gonna have way more time once you hit FI, but if you're someone who you have these values, like yes, you might allocate more time toward those values, but you need to set those values out kind of on your journey. Let's go back to some other examples. If you really want to learn an instrument or really want to learn language, maybe now, you you're super busy, you're working that full time job, you got kids, maybe now you can only practice for 15 minutes a day. But like you are practicing for 15 minutes a day, you're already doing the thing. So when five comes around, you have all this free time. Now you can become a freaking guitar master and play for two hours a day. You can go live in Peru for a month and practice Spanish all the time. So like, but I do think it's very important to get some of those habits. some of those values set early on, and then you can like really double down hard into them once you hit FI and once you have all that time freedom. Justin David Carl (01:07:57.182) I completely agree with you there. I think it is... ludicrous to think that you will suddenly start doing something in retirement if you haven't been doing it during your working years. yes, yeah. And so you have to make time for whatever you say your priorities and values are. So I think some important things that help me is Cody Berman (01:08:19.901) But so many people think like that. Isn't that crazy? It's crazy. Justin David Carl (01:08:33.798) understanding my own circadian rhythm. So I'm a morning person. All my energy is in the first half of the day. After two or three o'clock, there's no way I'm going to the gym. There's no way I'm going to do the things that I want to do that maybe aren't required. So I woke up early and I lived my dream life from five to nine. So I coached, I podcasted, I wrote social media content, I worked out for two hours, I did all the things that were core to me living my best life. before I even started my corporate work day. Now, my wife is a night person. So for her, it's better to do those things in the afternoon and the evening. So it doesn't matter if you do them before your nine to five or after. But I think what a lot of people do is by the time they finish their nine to five, they're so fucking exhausted that of course they're not going to work out. They're not going to go, you know, start the side hustle. So I think One, you need to understand your circadian rhythm. Two, you need to put what your values and priorities are as the priorities in your high energy time, whether that's in the morning, whether that's on your lunch break, or whether that's in the evening or afternoon or whatever. Just understand your own circadian rhythm and then optimize, like put your life before your nine to five job. So I gave, and I used to say this, this is kind of a crass way of saying, I would give my nine to five job my sloppy seconds. So I would give my best energy to my dreams, to my aspirations. And then I would give my job, and I still was a super high performer, right? So, but I think... Cody Berman (01:10:35.635) You Justin David Carl (01:10:51.654) Unfortunately, most people give their best energy to their job who you may have the best job in the world. You may have the best boss in the world, but that could change in literally. get a new boss and suddenly work sucks or there's a reorgan. You get fired and you've just given all of your best energy for years to a company that has no problem replacing you if they need to. And again, I, my company was amazing. My bosses were amazing. I loved like, I had a great time, but I still knew push come to shove. You know, we got acquired. Guess what? We don't need the sales team anymore. Goodbye, Justin. It's been a good 10 years. So, and I wasn't mad cause I knew it was coming. That's why I pursue financial independence. any thoughts or reflections before we go on to the next thing? Cody Berman (01:11:51.667) Now I think you pretty well covered it. Well said. Justin David Carl (01:11:57.064) So I'll put an end cap on that because you sort of talked about this. There's two pieces. One, you do this incredible thing where every month, and you talked about this in our previous interview, we've talked about your book, monthly you have a meeting with your wife where you talk about the important areas of your life. Do you remember, pull it up on your phone while I'm talking, what the areas are? Cody Berman (01:12:20.585) Mm Yeah. I have it in my notes here. My phone's charging, but I have it in my, I'm an Apple computer guy. So I got cut the notes up here. All right. I have monthly meeting. All right. Pulled up. Justin David Carl (01:12:35.836) Yeah, so every month you sit down or go out to a nice meal or go for a walk and you talk about which areas of life. Cody Berman (01:12:44.169) So we have money, real estate, health and fitness, travel, relationships, and we have a random category, and then we have goals for next month. Justin David Carl (01:12:53.478) And then he literally does this. So the reason I bring this up is because since you do this and have been doing this for seven years or whatever you said last time we talked, you know what your values are in the current season of life. You know what the priorities are. Cody Berman (01:13:07.305) since 2019. Justin David Carl (01:13:19.944) with your significant other in the current season that you're in. And one of the things I always love to point out is your values and priorities change over time. What is, I used to be completely obsessed with gymnastics rings training during COVID, and now I'm completely obsessed with pickleball. And it's totally different. knowing what your current values and interests and priorities are is really important and having a process where you're kind of staying updated on what those are as they evolve, as you change, grow and evolve yourself, as your partner changes, grows and evolves. And then the other thing you mentioned, but I just want to highlight it is you have this blocks of time that are dedicated to certain things that are priorities and values of yours. Right? So you have the gym, you have your afternoon walk with your wife, you have other things. And sometimes it's, you know, two, three hour block working on a specific project that you're really passionate about. But you go through this iterative process where you're talking with your partner about the priorities, the values. Then you structure your day to make sure that you're hitting or putting energy into those values and priorities. And then you intersperse that with taking breaks and going on vacations and getting outside of your box. So you can look at the box and say, Hey, what do I like about this current season of this box? What do I not like? What needs to change, cetera. So I think that iterative process is. really valuable and I forget who said it but a well-examined life is a life well lived is what this makes me think of is you do a really good job of examining the life that you're living while you're living it and then questioning whether or not how you're actually living day to day is in alignment with what you think you want to be doing in this season of your life. Cody Berman (01:15:21.566) Mm-hmm. Cody Berman (01:15:42.622) And I think what a lot of FI folks already have going for them is like you said, they already have a North star. They're going after this monumental goal of hitting financial independence. You're already the type of person to set a goal and to chase milestones along the way. think even in the FI space though, people are not doing that in other facets of their life. mean, definitely outside of the FI space. If you ask someone what their values are or what their goals are, they're just going to be like, most people have no idea. They're just like living day to day with pretty much zero intention. and zero goals and don't know what the next couple of months or couple of years are gonna look like for them. But I think in this PHY space specifically, like if you're someone who's listening to this podcast, you have a leg up on the average person. Like you're already someone who knows how to set a goal and then know what milestones need to be hit to reach that goal. Take that and kind of transpose it onto different facets of your life. So take that same ambition, that same hunger for reaching PHY. and put it on your relationship, put it on your health and fitness, put it on whatever other goal you might have and break it down. I think so many people get so hyper-focused on just the numbers and just financial independence that they lose sight of the most important things, which is actually living your life. Like that's why we do this whole five thing in the first place, is to live a better life. It's not just to hit some magic number. Like that's not why we're doing it. We're doing it for freedom. That's the whole point. And sometimes people miss it. Justin David Carl (01:17:03.86) 100%. Yeah. And the people who defer living the life they want to live until they hit FI, that is crazy to me. Like, live the life you want to live today or at least a smaller version of it. And then when you have the resources and the time that financial independence gives you, then you can expand that version of the life you already love. Because I love the life that I lived while I was in that corporate gig. And then I, now that I'm two years in, I just do way more of all the things that I love. Cody Berman (01:17:45.255) Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. think we're so aligned on this and I think I've even butted heads with folks in the FI community who are like, no, the FI years are your grind years. Like then you can enjoy it on the other side. It's like, no, like not, and I know we talked about this last time, like my dad, like not every day is promised. You never know when that last day is gonna be. So might as well enjoy them now. Like you can still go after the goal of financial independence and bettering your life just because. Justin David Carl (01:17:54.269) No! Cody Berman (01:18:10.921) Some people take that to the extreme. They're like, okay, well then YOLO, I'm gonna spend all my money and I'm just gonna eat junk food because I'm gonna get hit by a bus tomorrow. I'm like, that's not the right way to think about it. Like you can still have a plan that you're going to make it until you're 80, 90 or a hundred years old, but you can enjoy the plan. You can enjoy the ride. You can enjoy the journey. So there's two, like I think on both ends, people get a little too crazy. Some people are so focused, so frugal that they're not enjoying the journey whatsoever just because they wanna hit this magic number and then think life's gonna be amazing. And then there's the YOLO, spend all your money, going to tons of debt people who are like, I'm not saving anything, who knows, I might get hit by a bus. I think there's a healthy middle that a lot of us can strive for. Justin David Carl (01:18:52.468) percent. So there's two areas I want to cover before we wind this down. Community and what we do different if we were to do it over. I got to use the bathroom super bad because I crushed a bunch of caffeine. I'm going to use the bathroom and be right back. We'll do those two topics and then we will shut this down and get you to dinner with your wife. Cody Berman (01:19:04.137) Mm. Cody Berman (01:19:08.412) Okay. Cody Berman (01:19:17.372) Sounds good. Justin David Carl (01:19:19.326) I'll be right back. Cody Berman (01:19:20.618) Okay.
Community Is an Asset Class
Justin: And we're back. I have crushed so much caffeine and so much fluids because I've been playing pickleball and it's super sunny today. And I had to, not only did I use the restroom before we started recording, I had to stop mid recording to use it again. But anyways, we are back and there's two more topics I wanted to talk about before we wrap this. Number one was community and how important That is too early retirement and life in general. I think when we're working in a traditional nine to five job or anytime we're working for a company, we have a built in community. We have our colleagues. We have people that we see every week, at least five times a week, or maybe three, if two of the days you get to work remote and When I first moved to Santa Cruz, we moved here in September of 2022. I had a huge community in Menlo Park. had my FI meetup group, which Cody came and saw there was what? 50 fucking people that came to that. Yeah, maybe 80. Yeah. So I had all my financial independence friends. I had all my Silicon Valley, Stanford.
Cody: I like there was like 80 people, dude. You had a monstrous group. Yeah.
Justin: tech friends. And then I moved to Santa Cruz in the end of 2022 and my wife immediately went out and started building community, finding friends, meeting people, joined women's group, started her own women's group. And she encouraged me to do the same thing. And I knew that my company was either gonna go under or get acquired. And I decided I need to focus on building my online business and stay focused on my coaching and my podcasting and my corporate job. And I did a fucking terrible job of building community for the first two and a half ish years of living here in Santa Cruz. And which is about an hour away from where I used to live. it hanging out with my friends that I used to hang out with, it was too far for it to ever really happen. And then when I was laid off, I didn't have a built-in group of friends. so naturally I wasn't very happy until I started playing pickleball and built community. And this new gym opened up in Santa Cruz called Santa Cruz Athletic Club. Shout out to Chris, Camille and Tim, the owners. And Now I have all these amazing gym friends. have all these amazing pickleball friends and I'm so fucking happy. And it's like so basic. It's literally in all the happiness researches, relationships and community is so important. And so those who retire early, If you don't have a group of friends who have a similar lifestyle to you in early retirement, you're going to be really fucking lonely and you're going to be unhappy. And I have several thoughts on how you can bridge this, but I'm a pause because I just shared a bunch and get Cody's take on community because you've been entrepreneur since. don't know how long, but. there's a challenge of building community there, because you're working for yourself and you're not even going to a job. So how have you approached community building in your own life?
Cody: Well, I just think we solved the last hour 15 when you're talking about being depressed, needing to decompress. I think if you had a community right out of the gate, that probably would have solved everything. For me, community is so, so important. It was actually you alluded to it, all the studies that have come out. I know the big one last year, the World Health Organization came out and said that people who have an active social life have or the people who don't have an active social life, like isolated people that just kind of sit at home. face a 50 % greater risk of premature death. Like people just live longer when they have purpose, when they have friends, when they have family, community, like stuff to do. I can't stress how important that is. For me, I like to have kind of different pockets of communities. I have some entrepreneur friends that are like, I only like to hang out with people who are doing better than me. Like I only like to, I like to be the dumbest person in the room always. Then they're like, I shed my old group of friends. I think that's the dumbest fucking thing ever. Like I have, friends from when I was growing up who have no interest whatsoever in personal finance. They don't even invest at all. And some of these guys are some of my best friends and we hang out and we have other things in common that we can talk about and that we can collaborate and work and hang out on. And then I have friends in the FI community and those people love talking about money and those people have helped me in different ways. And then I have like, I play pickleball too. I have pickleball friends. Like I have all these different pockets of friends who kind of for lack of a better term, serve different purposes. So like, I think community is so, so, so important. And like I was saying before, I think a lot of people, when they hear community, especially in the FI space, they kind of think like some of the entrepreneur friends that I've talked to before, where you only have to like hang out with like five minded people, or you only have to hang out with, you always have to be like the dumbest person in the room. But like, you could be friends with your hometown friends, you can be friends with college friends, you can be friends with friends from work that... Maybe they don't align perfectly with everything that you think about that perfectly with all your values. But if there's like one or two things that you guys really get on about, if they're for you, Justin, I'm sure there's people at pickleball that like they don't care about personal finance. Maybe they're not even in good shape, but like you guys both love pickleball and so your friends that you don't have to align with 100 % with every single thing about a person to get along with them and have them as part of your community. So I mean, I really have been feeling the value of community and just like having a network, especially with like book launch and stuff, because as part of my strategy, had to like individually text close friends and family. And I was able to like get a list of 150 people you're on that list, Justin, 150 people that I was on like a texting basis with that I could say, hey, you know, I need some support for this book, set them the link, they write a review, being able to have 150 people that I can text individually, and then I'll write back to me. These are people from all facets of life. Again, friends from when I was five years old, family. people from the FI world, people from sports, people from college, like people from all different walks of life that are still important pieces in my community. I think honestly, that's probably why I haven't faced any crazy depression or burnout or anything like that in my FI journey, in my entrepreneurial journey, because I mean, for the first couple of years, I was kind of like a solo guy. I wasn't going to work and like building a community that way. So I kind of had to figure out how to work community into my life and maintain these relationships and all these different facets. Man, I can't stress the importance of community enough and the research backs it up. The research shows like, if you don't have community, you literally have a 50 % greater chance of dying early. It's crazy.
Justin: Yeah, so a couple thoughts and reflections. One thing I've noticed that you've done a great job of from afar, and I don't think we've directly spoken about it, or maybe we have, but very little, is you got into mastermind groups with other entrepreneurs. And I've had this conversation with other people about you. And many of the people in that group have all become very fucking successful at very young ages. And I think not only is it important for your happiness, it's also important for your success in your endeavors. So if you are pursuing financial independence or entrepreneurship, getting into communities where those people are is critical to your success. In my own journey, I started a financial independence meetup group because I wanted to surround myself with local people in my physical geography that were on the path to FI. And I swear to God, that is one of the reasons I went from negative $80,000 in debt to achieving financial independence in about two and a half years is because I was inspired by and lifted up by all these other people who are further on the path than me. And I was arm and arm with the people that, you know, were at my level or below, and we're all helping each other, inspiring each other and empowering each other. And I think one of the reasons that you make 80 to $90,000 a month at 30 years old is because you were in these masterminds with other people. And some of them were ahead of you. Some of them were behind you, but together it empowered you to achieve incredible success in your entrepreneurial endeavors. And then from a happiness standpoint, you're a hundred percent right. Most of the people I play pickleball with are not at all a part of the financial independence community. Many of them are freaking 50, 60, 70 year old retired people. But there we share this love of pickleball and you know, in between games and after games, we talk about all sorts of different things and we just have the common bond of pickleball. And in the fight community, I also it early on in my journey, I went to my first Camp FI in 2018, which was really the first year of my FI journey. And I got to meet people like Paula Pant, Scott Trench, Jillian Johnsrud, all of who've now been on my podcast, people I can call my friends. And, you know, recently went to FinCon, which is not just FI people only my estimate is about 20 % of the people that go to FinCon are five people. The other are just content creators in the personal finance and money space. then I went to EconoMe, which is all financial independence people. And I'm kicking myself that I didn't go to FinCon and EconoMe years ago. And now I'm going out of my way to kind of build my own mastermind of online entrepreneurs so that I can also build out a business that is built around my life, but also makes lots of money, but there's no rush to it. So what I'm trying to do is find people that are obsessed with making money, but they are wanting to build a business around an interest or a passion. but also are interested in living what I call a fit rich life. So that's been a journey. And the way I think about it is community is an asset class that everyone who lives an incredible life needs to build up.
Cody: I love that.
Justin: And I think a lot of people, especially in the FI community, They read the blogs, listen to the podcasts, but they don't actually build up that asset class. And then when they get to early retirement, if they don't live in Longmont or move to Longmont, they... face some pretty big challenges of just general life happiness because they haven't invested in that asset class. So they might have millions of dollars, but they are at a net worth of zero or a very low net worth of the community asset.
Cody: Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think I want to revise my previous answer slightly. Because I mentioned, I just see so many people, I feel like it's probably just my feed. I've been like the bro entrepreneur, make more money, like I get all that type of content. And that's the people who are like, ditch your old friends, they're losers. Like you need to hang out with people who are doing better than you. I do think there is a lot of value in hanging out with people who can break the barriers that you put on yourself. Like if you hang out with people who are doing what's seemingly impossible, you were just going to slowly started to gravitate toward them. So for me, at beginning of my FI journey, was like, oh, like these podcasters, have, you know, a couple of million dollar net worth, they've hit FI. And then as I started to progress as an entrepreneur, like now I'm on texting basis with people who are making a million dollars a month. I'm on texting basis with people who have a hundred million dollar net worths. And it just breaks my frame. So like, I think there is a lot of value in having relationships with those types of people. What I was saying before though, is that that doesn't mean you need to ditch everyone who came before them. Like just because you leveled up doesn't mean you need to stop talking to your friend from grade school that you've been friends with for the last couple of decades. that's, I think a lot of people take that the wrong way. And I see that message on social media a lot, but I'm such a huge fan of surrounding myself with people who are doing what I thought seemingly impossible before. I remember the first time my money frame was broken with Grant, he had made $50,000 in one day. He had done a sponsorship. He did like a series of four blog posts and like a social media, I don't even know if Reels was a thing back then, 2019, this was on the book tour, some time in the book tour. And I'm like, you just made $50,000, like what the hell? Like what? It just like completely broke my frame. And since then, my frame has been broken many times over. But yeah, just seeing those people actually exist and doing things that you thought were seemingly impossible, whether or not that's money, I know I've talked about this before, but like the four minute mile, that was something that seemed. like it could never be broken. And then Roger Bannister broke it and eight people did it the next year. We just had someone run a two hour marathon. There's probably going to be like 10 people next year that run a two hour marathon. Like once someone does something, it becomes achievable in other people's brains. And then it becomes achievable, like actually achievable because it's kind of like manifestation where like if you really want something enough, like your, your body, your mind, you're just going to eventually kind of do the actions that get that result. So I do again, want to revise my answer from before. I think there is a lot of value. and getting in rooms where you are the dumbest person, you are the worst person at that thing, but not at the expense of those old friends. You don't have to ditch them on the ride.
Justin: Yeah, I agree with you. I'm of the believer that you 100 % want to get around people that are really far ahead of you in certain areas of life because they will show you what's possible. And then once you see what's possible, you realize that it's possible for you. And the same thing happened to me in my corporate gig. So I got two sales mentors at the beginning of my journey, maybe a year or two or even three years into the journey. And they both said to me, Justin, you can make 500 to a million a year. And at the time was maybe making a hundred ish. And in my head, I was like, what? 500 to a million?
Cody: Yeah
Justin: Like that is five to 10X what I'm making now. But not only did they tell me it was possible, they were doing it and they believed that I could do it. So I leaned on their belief in addition to the tactical, strategical ways of making that happen. And within a year of working with them, I went from 100 to over 400,000 to the following year over 700,000 to the following year, almost $900,000. And that's the power of having your frame broken by someone who shows you just how much more is possible. And that's true in the financial independence journey. That's true in entrepreneurship. That's true in fitness. One of the ways I got super fit was I just started hanging out with really fit people. And then it's the same way I got really wealthy is I just surround myself with people who are wealthy. And I completely agree with you. Sometimes you need to get into a group that has some lighthouses that show you just how much is possible. And then other times you're the lighthouse in your friend group.
Cody: Mm-hmm.
Justin: and you don't tell them what to do, you just stand there like a lighthouse, swinging your light around, just showing them what's possible by living the life that you live. So Cody, I know you said you have friends from high school, from college, and you don't preach to them how they should live their life. You just show them what's possible by being you. And then, that lifts their life up. Now they may never achieve what you've achieved, but by staying in their life and being a friend, you increase their life. And I think that is part of being a great human is not only being lifted up by other people, but lifting up other people.
Cody: Yeah, I love that. I like the lighthouse analogy too, where sometimes you're the lighthouse or sometimes you're just looking for a lighthouse in a different group, but there's no issue being both. can be multiple lighthouses.
Be the Lighthouse, Not the Tugboat
Justin: Yeah. One of my favorite ideas is be the lighthouse, not the tugboat. So the tugboat is trying to get someone to do something right. It's like tugging something along, right. Which almost never fucking works, because if you're in the FI community, at some point in your FI journey, you try to convince all your friends and family to get on the FI journey with you. And they're like,
Cody: Okay, I liked it. And no one listens.
Justin: Yes. And they just get annoyed or frustrated with you or ignore you. And then you get frustrated that they're not listening to you. So I think being the lighthouse, just showing people what's possible by living your best life is the best way. And don't ever try to be the tugboat for family, for friends, et cetera.
Cody: 100 % agree.
What We’d Do Differently in Early Retirement
Justin: Yeah. So for everyone listening, there's million ways to build friendships and community. I highly recommend Camp FI. They're all over the place. Go to your local FI meetup group. If you're an entrepreneur, whether you join a mastermind virtually or create one or find one locally, that's really important. Whether you start playing pickleball or joining a HYROX gym or whatever. It's so important to have community because it is the most important asset class to your happiness and your health and longevity, your life. So lastly, we're going to finally wind this long ass conversation down. Are there any things that you would do different when it comes to
Cody: your life. Yeah, yeah.
Justin: your FI journey, your money journey. I know you mentioned a couple times working way too hard. But I love to, and I'm thinking through, you know, just some takeaways for if I was gonna redo the last two years of early retirement, what I would tell myself to focus on.
Cody: would definitely maybe work a little less hard. Although I think a lot of people who have quote unquote made it will be like, you don't have to work as hard. I think there is value though in those first couple of years of the grind. Like if you are someone who does want to do this in three years, I don't think anyone could probably do what me or Justin did if they don't work hard for those three years. Like it's very, very difficult. So there is a time and a place for the grind. I kind of reject the people that are like, you can just take it slow. Just cruise, there is a time and place to grind in the beginning of years. What I will say though is I did not fully appreciate the freedom that FI had bought me or even appreciation along the journey. I definitely could have loosened the reins a little bit on spending earlier. And now that I have like, I use ChatGPT as my kind of personal buddy, therapist, planner, coach, all sorts of things. I have all these different like projects within ChatGPT. But in the money project, like, and I talk to it pretty regularly. And it's like, dude, you gotta spend more money. Like you're gonna end up with way more money than you could ever know what to do with. You should enjoy it now. So I've definitely gotten better with that. I have loosened the reins on spending over the past couple of years, because I still do have a pretty massive gap between my income, my expenses. And so I'm still kind of just plowing things into retirement, even though I'm already way past my FI number on the cashflow and the nest egg method. So. That's probably the main two things is work less hard after I've hit FI. Like I don't need to be grinding like a crazy man and sacrificing the things that I say I value just to make a couple extra bucks. Now, again, I am a huge fan of working hard. I like going hard for a couple of weeks and then I'll take a month off or whatever, but not at the expense of the other things that I say are important. I really don't wanna ever be in a position where I'm just working 16 hours a day, not lifting, eating like crap because I don't have time to cook just for the sake of work. I don't want to be in that position. And then the second one is to probably realize the freedom that FI had bought me earlier and start to loosen up the range a little bit in the categories that I value. That's an important piece here in the categories that I value, which for us is travel and experiences. It does not mean I'm to go out and buy a Lambo just because I have the money to buy a Lambo. Like I could go buy one tomorrow. Am I going to? Absolutely not. It's not going to make me happy. I'm to be freaking so worried every time I parked that thing somewhere. I don't want a Lambo. I'm totally fine with my my used 2015 truck. But spending ruthlessly in the categories that I value. know Ramit Sethi talks about his money dials. Like don't spend, turn your money dials all the way down in the categories that you don't give a shit about and blast them. Like max volume in the categories that you do care about. So for me that's like travel and experiences. So we've gotten a lot better about that over the last couple years but I could have increased those money dials earlier once we were well past our FI number.
Justin: Yeah, those are all great. So for me, I just talked about it, but I'm going to repeat myself a little bit community. I think if I had retired early and stayed in Menlo park, I would have been fine. But I think oftentimes people earlier retire and then move somewhere new as part of their FI plan. So if that is you be very intentional about building community. Even if it's not you be very intentional about building community for your post-FI life because you're no longer going to have those colleagues from work. You're no longer going to have most of the people that you know in the working world. They're going to be busy Monday through Friday working. And they're most likely going to be too tired to hang out after work. So just be really intentional about community. again, I think immersing yourself in the FI community, because there are so many people all over the place that are financially independent. And even if that's you going to some Camp PHIs and going to economy and then realizing, hey, now I have all these new friends, I can go visit them. where they live because I don't have anything better to do because I'm financially independent and early retired. The other thing I do a better job is just giving myself two to four months or longer to decompress with no need to build anything, make money, do anything. And if I felt I needed longer, six, 12 months, who cares? Cause I got the rest of my life to pick up projects and do things and just to give myself permission to not work on anything and not chase money. The other thing is reading the transitions book sooner and just being aware that there's, of course, when you go from one major segment of life, and this is gonna happen again and again in life, and this is why I think it's really important for people to understand, when you retire from a job, there is a massive transition. If you go through a divorce, there's going to be a massive transition. If a spouse or close family member passes, there's going to be a transition period. And so just being aware of that transition periods involve a key component of being in the unknown, and that's just natural. So understanding that and just being okay, being in the unknown, knowing that you will come out of the unknown. in time. removing the pressure to know what to do next, knowing that eventually it will come. The other thing is, think this is really for not only people who early retire, but anyone who hits their FI number is you need to shift your priority from maximizing net worth to maximizing net life. Now, what I mean by maximizing net life is your life, the quality of your life becomes the number one priority. So many of us on the journey to financial independence, growing our net worth and reaching our financial independence numbers as fast as possible becomes the top priority. But once you've achieved FI and especially once you early retire, your life needs to come first. And so right now, What I'm doing is I'm continuing to build a business, but my business is a life first business. So me doing all the things that I love to do, play pickleball, read books, spend time in nature, spend a lot of time with friends, with my wife, with family, travel, all that comes first. But there's still time to build my business. I still have energy and I can still make money and I can still grow my net worth. It's just no longer the priority. It's number two. It's number three. It's number four, number five. I don't know what it is. It's definitely not number one though. My life is. And then double clicking on what Cody said about the values. Just having some sort of process to realize what your current values and interests are and reflecting on that monthly. So then you can make sure that you're life is in alignment with those values and interests in the current season of your life. And then the other thing I wish I had done a better job of, I did it, but I wasn't intentional about it is I think a great time to go on a long trip is when you leave work, especially if it's a traditional thing and go on a multi-month trip. just to get out of your bubble so you can reflect and look back. You you said get out of the box so you can read the label. And I think that's a beautiful analogy of. how you can actually look at the life that you have and decide what parts of it you want to keep and what parts of it you want to change and evolve. So those are the things I would do different. Any additional thoughts now I said all that?
Cody: I love it man. no, I'm pretty happy with my answers. I think those are definitely the two things that I would change. mean, all in all, I was incredibly lucky to find all this stuff so early that I didn't have a lot of bad habits, lifestyle inflation, other things like that to undo. I was, and I know how incredibly fortunate I was to discover this whole world at 19 and then start building my FI, basically my Nest Egg, my net worth at 22 to 25 were like my grind years. I was incredibly fortunate to do it so early. I don't have a ton of regrets about the journey itself. It was more the mental stuff like we've been talking about. was more the like, yeah, grinding too hard. It was more the not realizing the freedom that came from FI. I think those are probably, yeah, both are the two big things.
Justin: Yeah, and you did such an amazing job of connecting to the FI community at such a young age. What age were you when you went to your first FI event?
Cody: 21, it was actually Camp FI, Florida, and I just reread, so I had a book launch party last night, and Julie, my business partner came and she gave a speech, and she referenced this article that I forgot existed on JD Roth's blog, Get Rich Slowly. I did a guest post when I was 21 years old, and in that guest post, I need to pull it up, but it's like, I said something like, my goal is to hit financial freedom at 25. Me and Lauren are already extremely frugal. We're gonna save.
Justin: you
Cody: as much percentage of our income as we possibly can. It's like, who wouldn't want to retire at 25? It just sounds too good. And that was the exact age I hit FI. It's freaking crazy, dude. But yeah, I was 21 when I got introduced to that community.
Write Down Your Goals: The Blog Post That Predicted Cody’s FI Date
Justin: Yeah, it's insane putting your goals in written form. So I have a funny, similar story. So I had a passion planner, which is a type of journal. And I got it right around when I discovered FI and I literally put 1.5 million as my FI number and that I would get there in three years. And literally to the month. I didn't realize it when I hit the 1.5 million, but like six months ago, I was looking at this journal and then I went back to my net worth tracker, which is Empower, which used to be Personal Capital. And I was like, holy fucking shit. I made this goal to get to five in three years and I literally fucking did it to the month. And that's the power of writing your goals. And look at you, like you put this in a guest post on
Cody: That's crazy.
Justin: a freaking blog in writing that I'm a hip FI at 25 and lo and behold. So that's the power of fucking writing down your dreams and goals is your mind and spirit start working on it as soon as you put it into writing.
Cody: Yeah. So I found the actual post, I can read you the exact paragraph that just like blew my mind. It says, my hope is to work, this is before I even entered corporate by the way. It says, my hope is to work for less than three years in a traditional nine to five job. Instead, I'll rely on my, in parentheses, hopefully successful side hustles and real estate ventures. Once I reach this point, I can put all my time into passion projects, volunteerism and traveling. I'm sure to make some mistakes along the way, but the goal of becoming financially independent at age 25 sounds too good not to pursue.
Justin: Please do.
Cody: Dude, it's like give me the chills. crazy.
Justin: Boom, such a perfect place to end. Cody, thank you so much for spending time with me, digging into all this. I'm really proud of everything that you've done. Even though you're 14 years younger than me, you are deeply inspiring to me. And I love that I get to call you a friend and learn from you. whether that's creating a 1200 day email sequence or just being inspired to build more systems into my own business, as well as continuing to maintain a sense of optimism and joy for the adventure of life and money. So thank you so much for coming on the show. Incredible book. You deserve all the success that you've gotten so quickly on the
Cody: Ha
Justin: book. hope it continues to absolutely crush in terms of sales, as well as more importantly, changing people's lives. So thanks for coming on the show, brother.
Cody: Yeah, dude, I seriously appreciate our friendship. Like I mentioned before, you were on the close friends list, the people that I trust to send this out and hopefully they're going to buy it and leave a review. And I do appreciate our friendship so much. And it's crazy how much we both grown since 2019, April, 2019. I think it was when Grant and I rolled through and you organized that FI meetup. It's so crazy that it's been seven years since then and how much we've grown. So.
Justin: Yeah. Yeah. Well, many more incredible adventures together. I will hopefully see you at FinCon later this year.
Cody: for sure. Until next time.
Justin: I'm guessing, I'm, I'm guessing you're going to do a talk at, at FinCon since you got a book. And if you're not, okay, good. Good, good, good. Perfect. Yes. Yep. Perfect. Yeah. So on that note, get Cody's book Retire By 30. It's amazing whether you're 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 or older. It's an incredible read. It's impactful. It's. It's not boring ass.
Cody: I am. Come on, you know me, Justin. I got it all lined up.
Justin: finance book. And I wish, as I said in our last conversation, it was something that I had available to me in my twenties and that I actually read it and also go do something community related, whether that's going to Camp FI, FinCon, or EconoMe, book that trip, book that experience. That would be money well spent. And, uh, if you do that, you can hang out with me and Cody.
Cody: See you there.
Justin: Awesome, thanks brother.
Cody: Cool, that was awesome.