Alan Hong: Dirty Fuel vs Clean Fuel, Pain-Driven Success, Coherence, Sovereignty & More | FRLP 114

Alan Hong went from being bullied and living with a deep sense of powerlessness to overcorrecting through anger, ambition, external validation, and constant achievement.

Today, Alan is the creator of The Codex and writer of The Sovereign Letter, where he explores state-first identity shifts, nervous system regulation, coherence, and personal sovereignty.

In this episode, Alan explains why strategy alone often fails, how your internal state shapes your identity, and why externally successful people can still feel empty and fragmented inside.

We explore the hidden cost of building your life with “dirty fuel,” how pain and survival programming can drive achievement while slowly wearing you down, and why lasting transformation requires more than discipline or willpower.

Alan also shares how to stop abandoning yourself, reprogram the patterns keeping you stuck, align your mind, body, and heart, and become more sovereign over your choices and your life.

This is a powerful conversation about identity, ambition, healing, self-awareness, nervous system regulation, and building success without sacrificing yourself in the process.

Fit Rich Life Podcast Episode 114 with Alan Hong is available on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, and wherever you enjoy your podcast entertainment.

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In This Episode:

• Growing up with refugee parents and inheriting their survival programming

• Getting bullied, and why Justin was briefly a bully himself

• The graduation nobody clapped at, and the swing from victim to villain

• Fifteen sales jobs in five years and the burnout pattern underneath them

• Finding unconditional love and the beginning of a third path

• Why Alan doesn't write about his faith, and who his work is actually for

• Maslow's hierarchy, safety and significance, and why "teach a man to fish" fails

• How the Codex started as a public diary

• What you teach is teaching you: using a platform to metabolize your own growth

• No originals, only original remixes — Lao Tzu, the Stoics, NLP, and the Hermetic principles

• David Goggins versus Wim Hof: two ways to conquer a literal mountain

• Nonviolent communication: needs are valid, strategies are the problem

• What self-abandonment actually looks like from the inside

• Justin's investment banking internships and eight years in Hollywood nightlife

• When the cost exceeds the value: the gym membership test

• State before strategy, and why discipline advice fails ADHD brains

• Justin's shift from looking rich to FI — the Range Rover, the Prius, and three years of cooking at home

• Backsliding, and why identity has to be secured before habits will hold

• Dirty fuel versus clean fuel, and the hidden price of pain-driven success

• Fight, flight, freeze, fawn — how survival programming shows up at work

• Stress as the silent killer

• Coherence: mind, body, and heart in alignment as the opposite of survival

• Sovereignty explained through statecraft

• Alan's tips for fitness, money, and life

Chapters:
00:00 — Welcome, and who Alan Hong is
00:55 — Recording from Byron Bay, Australia
02:15 — Refugee parents, survival programming, and a bullied childhood
07:01 — Justin on being bullied by his brother and becoming a bully
09:26 — Nobody clapped at graduation: victim to villain at 19
11:46 — Pickup artistry, alpha-male circles, and stacking skills
23:54 — Why Alan doesn't write about Christianity
26:12 — Maslow's hierarchy, safety, and significance
28:31 — Meeting real needs through unhealthy strategies
33:22 — How the Codex began as a public diary
36:04 — Two and a half years of creating online
41:21 — No originals, only original remixes: Alan's influences
44:16 — David Goggins versus Wim Hof
46:41 — The bicep curl and the myth of the self-made man
50:04 — Nonviolent communication: needs, feelings, and strategies
54:05 — Justin's investment banking years and the Hollywood nightlife trap
01:01:06 — When the cost exceeds the value
01:10:15 — What "state" means, and why state comes before strategy
01:15:58 — Justin's identity shift from looking rich to FI
01:29:32 — Blended chicken breast and the anatomy of a backslide
01:31:53 — Dirty fuel versus clean fuel
01:38:27 — Your body doesn't know you're safe
01:40:53 — Fight, flight, freeze, fawn in everyday life
01:43:52 — Stress as the silent killer
01:45:54 — Coherence: the opposite of survival
01:51:22 — Sovereignty through the lens of statecraft
01:55:57 — Money tip: time in the market, not timing the market
01:57:29 — Fitness tip: hypertrophy and progressive overload
01:59:19 — Life tip: zoom out and see the patterns
02:00:36 — Where to find Alan online

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FULL TRANSCRIPT:

Alan Hong: Dirty Fuel vs Clean Fuel, Pain-Driven Success, Coherence, Sovereignty & More | FRLP 114

Justin David Carl: Today I'm joined by Alan Hong, creator of the Codexx and writer of the Sovereign Letter. Alan writes about state first identity shifts, subconscious and nervous system work, and moving from fragmented to coherent. This conversation is for anyone who has chased the body, the money, the freedom, the business, the self improvement, and still feels like something inside has not fully landed. We're going to talk about survival programming, ambition from safety versus self threat, and how to build a fit rich life without abandoning yourself in the process. Alan, welcome to the show, brother.

Welcome to the Show: Recording From Byron Bay, Australia

Alan Hong: Hi Justin, thank you. It's great to be here. Thank you so much.

Justin David Carl: So obviously the listeners will hear your accent. So where are you recording from today?

Alan Hong: I'm in Byron Bay, which is a beautiful coastal town in New South Wales, Australia, where we've got a lot of giant spiders and the kangaroos out in the backyard. You might see on Facebook and Instagram. It's not that bad, right? But yeah, I mean, Australia is beautiful. We're in winter at the moment, but we're pretty good. We don't get snow storms or anything like that. It just gets a little bit chilly. That's where I am right now.

Justin David Carl: Well, thank you so much for joining me. It is, I know, very early, eight thirty your time. It's three thirty in the afternoon my time 'cause I'm in California. But I really appreciate you making the time to come on the show. As I mentioned to you before we hit record, you are my favorite Instagram follow of twenty twenty six and I'm just such a huge fan of your creative work and I'm excited to have you on the show. For someone discovering you for the first time, tell us a little bit of your story, who you are, who you were before the Codexx and the Sovereign Letter, and kind of give us the origin story of your current incarnation online.

Refugee Parents, Survival Programming, and a Bullied Childhood

Alan Hong: Wow. Okay. So I mean, that's a big question. And, I, I don't want to inundate our audience or the listeners with too much information, but, I really have to start at the beginning. Like, and when I say beginning as a, as a kid, right. So, I might just quickly outline what, like the Codexx is all about, and, and what I do online, it's really helping people be aligned to themselves, having a sense of agency that they feel that they might not have. And that's what coherence is all about, which I'm sure we'll pull apart and dig into a little bit later. You know, as a kid, when we're all kids, right, we're very, you know, reliant on our parents and our surroundings, all that kind of stuff. And as a kid, you don't have much of a choice in terms of what gets fed into you, right? Like the opinions, the facts, what's happening around your outer world, because, you know, as a child, you're really focused on survival, right? And being in the moment. And that's where the problem is. I think a lot of us understand that, you know, lot of who we are, what we do today comes back to the kind of environments that we grew up in, the kind of people around us and the input, I like to say, the information and our experiences that will come are an amalgamation and a combination of all of their voices, which affects who we are today. And if we're not conscious to that, it really drives all of our decisions. So I'm... I live in Australia, was born here, but you can see I'm Chinese and my parents were refugees and they came from third world countries where it was really tough, where their upbringings, with their parents, my grandparents, it was struggle day to day, they were counting every dollar. There was war, they came from war as well, my parents, were refugees and when they came to Australia, While Australia, you know, such a beautiful country, a lot more opportunities, a lot more safer and, you know, rule of law exists, all that kind of stuff. My parents weren't able to let go of how they were raised as children, despite being in an environment of safety, right, in Australia versus China back then, Cambodia, where, yeah, it wasn't as safe for them as it is now in Australia. So as such, when I was growing up, a lot of... Their thoughts and their opinions. Go to school, work hard, don't stand out too much. If I got into trouble, don't try and fight for justice or fight to be correct. Just keep your head down, suck it up, just be wrong in the moment. It doesn't matter, you don't want to kick up a stink. So even when I was in school and I was getting bullied, I didn't want to make I didn't want to defend myself because I was more afraid of my parents' wrath than standing up for myself. So not only I was at home copping it from my mom and dad that I had to be a certain way, I had to do this, do that. I also wasn't prepared to stand up for myself in school. So, you know, I got bullied a lot because, you become a target when you're not standing up for yourself. Know, other kids think you're an easy target and actually that minimized. That what that did was it really helped, it really determined a lot of what I thought about myself in my older years that I wasn't good enough, anything I had to say for myself didn't matter, I was afraid of being wrong and it actually twisted the way I approached thinking as well. So I had a really black and white relationship to thinking, it was either right or it was wrong. There was no in between because I wasn't allowed that space. So I allowed that grace back in school from my parents or the kids at school. You know, if I did X, Y, Z, I'd be wrong. And it had to be a certain way. So I'd always be second guessing myself. So, you know, which, which led me to the Codexx, right? So long story short, I realized, Hey, hang on, you know, it doesn't have to be like this. I can choose to have agency over my own life and, It just comes down to a lot of nervous system work that I had to really get back into and refine and pull apart in terms of what old narratives were affecting my life. Which is how I built out the Codexx and I'm all about coherence at the moment. So yeah, hopefully that gives you an idea of where I'm at and who I am.

Justin on Being Bullied by His Brother and Becoming a Bully Himself

Justin David Carl: So along your journey, and I really appreciate you being open and vulnerable. I think a lot of us have trauma from childhood. Some of us were bullied, some of us like myself, I my older brother used to beat the shit out of me. And that made me go to school and beat the shit out of other people. So I was actually a bully for a time period. And it was just me not knowing how to express the own the pain I was receiving, so I just passed the pain on. You know, fortunately, by around fourth grade I stopped being the bully. But Yeah, but basically first through third grade, me and my best friend were the playground bullies. So and I still to this day remember one of my high school friends coming to me one time and saying Just sharing with me how miserable I made his life in elementary school because he was one of the people I picked on. And I'm I'm really grateful that I'm so far past that. But so point one, I appreciate you being vulnerable. Point two, I'm sorry you had to be bullied. I was bullied by my brother and so I have that experience and then I unhealthfully express expressed that in my own journey of being a bully. But as you went along your career or your life journey as you got to high school and then, you know, after high school, if you did any further education and then on to your career, I'm just curious what are some of the key things that happened before the Codexx was born? Because As far as I know, the Codexx was not born when you were being bullied. This came much later as a way for you to do your own healing and growing from the those childhood experiences that were really challenging for you.

Nobody Clapped at Graduation: The Swing From Victim to Villain

Alan Hong: Yeah, no, that is so true. And it's interesting you mentioned that you used to be a bully. Once upon a time, I guess I just was so black and white about that as well. Oh, you're a bully. It says a certain thing about you because I lived in such a victim mentality. But I hated having, I hated not having power, right? Because that's what happens when you're victim. You don't have power. And I hated the feeling of that. And it's just interesting you mentioned that because it got to a point where I think in high school, was after high school, right? I graduated high school and it was funny like graduation, everyone's going up and they got their little mortar board and their gown and everyone's clapping for them and stuff. This is year 12. And you know, we're just on the cusp of 18 or 17 and I got up, no one clapped for me and it was the most heart wrenching thing I could feel. But while I was like really sad for myself, I really got. Totally angry as well. So I did get into a bullying phase and sadly didn't stop at, maybe I got into it a bit too late. I don't know. You mentioned you stopped in fourth grade. I got into that, I guess a victim to a villain situation when I was like 19, because I was done being victim. I hated it. And then I got into personal development, right? But that personal development from a victim. Mentality because I was such a victim for so long, so suppressed, so minimized that when I became 18, I had all this freedom, right? My parents couldn't just tell me what to do anymore. But that being said, right, after 13 years of entrainment from their voices and the bullies, right, I still had this massive insecurity in me, this victim mode. And what happens and what's his name? Maxwell Maltz, think, Psycho-Cybernetics, he talks about overcorrection. So and a desperate move, I went from victim to this villain mode. You know, I didn't want to be a bad guy, but I just hated the feeling of weakness. And I remember reading books on personal growth and those personal growth books weren't like Tony Robbins. It wasn't like Tim Ferriss. It was not yet anyways. It was like the game by Neil Strauss, how to pick up women. It was like toxic masculinity stuff. You know, David DeAngelo, he was a old school creator from way back when. He changed as well. But he was, I've got his real, he has a real name, Eben Pagan, but he was David DeAngelo. That was his name on the internet back in the day before, you know, and it was all about how to talk to women. It was all about how to be a man. You know, because I had none of these things, I wanted to, I wanted all these things, right? How to be a baller. It was, it was not good. That kind of advice, right? Think Jordan Peterson gets a lot of flack for telling men to stand up for themselves. I think there's that, anyways, I don't want to get into that Red Pill kind of conversations is still happening today, right? But in a way, I think before Red Pill was even a term, I was really very much in that space because I so sad for little Alan, right? So sad for his upbringing. So. I remember going to nightclubs with, and I made a new friend who were like alpha males that were, you know, like in the, remember talking to one of them, they're like, I'm not a gangster, I'm just gangster affiliated. But anyways, semantics, but I used to roll with those boys and I used to, and they brought me into their circle. And it was funny, I would see those kids that used to bully me in those nightclubs I would go to and I would intentionally staunch them because that's how. Much I was hurting because I wanted revenge but I would never make a first move but anyways so I went from this whole victim thing to a villain thing where it was I wanted to you know make quick money I wanted to be a man I wanted to have you know like I wanted female companions and you know all that kind of stuff right so But what's and so I stacked a lot of skills, right? I was stacking a lot of skills. Like I went to learn how to talk, be more confident in myself, be able to public speak. What else did I do? I went to the gym and I was religious about it. So I used to, you know, work from nine to nine. So I was in sales at the time, but not to nine. And I built up a certain resume. That was far from who I used to be where I was killing in sales. I was putting a lot of hours, in, I was at the gym. I was hanging out with people who I, I took to be, more valuable and worthy than I was because I was strong in sales. So that conviction at these alpha males. And I saw that, and I read that like a spreadsheet, like, okay, Alan's ABC, Alan's, know, strong guys, tough eyes. More confident in myself, I won't take shit from no one. But the thing was, and I was like that for, I guess, a good seven years, right? So I went from like, you know, my childhood in high school where I was a victim to this arc where I was a lot more confident, a lot more stronger, and I was working hard. But there was a pattern, underlying pattern, that it was, felt like I could tell that every time I come home, I'd be exhausted. From, I guess, this performance. I love the results, I love the results, but I was tired, I was exhausted. Like for example, at work, even though I was crushing as a salesperson, I found myself jumping from sales job to sales job every two years. I think I went through like 15 different sales jobs in five years, that's crazy. I just burnt out after, yeah, every after two years, which was the sweet spot for some reason. And then I would jump into the next job hoping it would be better. And it always is in the first three months because you go through the honeymoon phase, but I'd end up in an environment where I'd be burning out again. You know, my relationships with these, these boys too. Okay. Right. Like I started seeing patterns. It wasn't very healthy. Right. They, they went out of their way to, they had, they all had an ego where they were better than other people. And when, because I was bullied, I, I didn't want to be that I knew what that felt like. So, I realized, Hey, there's something wrong here as well. And I was always angry. I was always angry and I was always looking to express that anger in extremely unhealthy ways. And I wouldn't take shit from anyone's, which meant that even for the slightest offense, I'd be offended and I'd take it personally. And that affected me in my sales roles, that affected me in my relationships with other friends as well. Like I would take it personally. And all of these things on the spreadsheet that I sort of picked up, There were consequences in... In the approach or strategy I took in order to accumulate those skills on my resume, so to speak, on my life resume. I'd be, you know, and those consequences was I was angry. I couldn't hold a relationship for long. I was spending money just to, because I wanted a sense of self-worth that I could, that I was self-efficient. I wanted to be with people who I felt were strong, but they had their own insecurities and it was all off the side and all ego and that would express it in unhealthy ways as well. So that led me from a path of looking at these personal growth folks because I had overcorrected. Knew both sides of the spectrum where I was a victim and this is like a victimizer or a villain to going, hang on, there's got to be There's got to be something else, right? So I moved into, I guess I found faith, I found God a couple of years later, right? Christianity is a huge part of my life. And, you know, the idea that love is unconditional, which was a very extreme and extreme to me, a very extreme belief, you know, love is unconditional. I hang on, is... It just doesn't make any sense to me. How can love be unconditional? How can I be given love? Right? And that really shifted a lot of things for me, right? Because I was in a community now of churchgoers, churchgatherers, where they showed me kindness and love without expectation, right? Which is extremely foreign for me, right? So they were walking with that belief, right? That love is unconditional. Whereas previously I was like, love is conditional. You have to You to be certain way, you have to act a certain way, you have to do certain things in order to make things happen for you. Whereas at church that wasn't the case. So I started going to church and because of the way they treated me, I wanted to be that kind of person where I could stand in my own authority without having to be violent or be angry. And I started looking into mindset work. Mindset work, how to change your mind, how to reframe and all that kind of stuff. So that's when I started looking into like Tim Ferriss, The 4-Hour Workweek, I started looking at productivity systems and tools, I started looking at personal growth folks. Geez. Yeah, this is where I'm bit stuck down. I'm of...

Fifteen Sales Jobs in Five Years and the Burnout Pattern Underneath

Justin David Carl: No, this is great. So really what you're doing is you're showing me and the audience kind of your own Struggle with finding an authentic identity. And you went from victim to villain, which is such a powerful contrast. I love that you were willingly admitting that's what you did, to then finding God, and you know it's I want to say this for the audience, just so people don't get turned off. I never knew Christianity or God was so important to you. And I've been following your work because you in your work you don't talk about Christianity. At least none of the stuff I've read. So I don't want and I have like I polytheist, so I believe in all religions. And I'm accepting of all religions and beliefs. And I think that one, I want the audience to know that your work isn't all about like, you know, being a Bible thumper or talking about Christianity, but really it's about becoming aligned with your true self. And the way you write about it is in a very intellectual way that is very easy to understand at the same time. And you do this amazing job of breaking down really complex concepts into Words and sentences that I think anyone can understand. And that is why you are my favorite follow of twenty twenty six on Instagram is because I feel anytime I go through one of your posts, which you do a lot of carousels, there's a lot of ri pictures with a lot of text and I read them and sometimes it takes me five minutes or more to get through a post. But it's five minutes well spent because I feel my mind is growing, or my spirit is growing, or my personal development is deepening. And so I just wanted to call that out because I know a lot of people as soon as they heard they hear Christianity or I found God, then they're like, let me turn off the podcast. Like, I don't want to listen to this evangelical person, which I would have again, if you had not mentioned that you found God in Christianity, I would have had no idea. But it sounds like you went from victim to villain to Finding a middle path that is more holistic or authentic, one that is from a place of unconditional love. And throughout this time, you're working sales jobs, probably making a lot of money, or at least great money. You mentioned you're spending a lot of money to, you know, look like you made it and feel good and just, you know. What most men do when they first start making a lot of money is buying dumb shit. But help me understand. So you found this unconditional love, you found a belief, and you're in this sales career. How do you transition to okay, now I'm creating content online about nervous system regulation mindset? Personal growth 'cause I still don't understand the origin of yourself as a creator.

Why Alan Doesn't Write About Christianity

Alan Hong: Yeah, that's a fair point. You know, I appreciate Justin. Thank you so much. Very kind words. And I love that a lot of what I try and distill and share with the world speaks to you because that's really what I want to do is make the complicated a little bit more simple, right? So come back to what you said. Yes. So I don't share. Fact that I'm a Christian, because my goal here isn't to convert people to Christianity. That's your journey, that's your belief, and that's not what I'm all about right now. I'm just all about just helping you in a way that is accessible to you, and that's what stopped me from being able to access wisdom, ancient wisdom, philosophy, spirituality, because it often was wrapped in language that was very abstract, it was very vague, it was Yeah, very woo woo, very hippie. I just thought people heads were in the clouds, right? To be honest, but they were right. But a lot of that stuff, if you look deep enough, tends to have a lot of practical pragmatism and wisdom in it. If you're able to just distill it. And that's what I'm trying to do with the coherence. So I just make it available to you. And I always say, and I do get people push back. On some stuff that I say and I say, perfect, wonderful, that's great. Reality is perception. You're more than welcome to go, this is wrong because one thing I can stand convicted on is that this is what works for me and hopefully works for you. And if it doesn't take what works and discard the rest, and if none of it works, then discard everything. So that's okay. Which is caveat or disclaimer with a lot of what I write. It's like... None of it is gospel, please don't take it that way. And it's really just from a space where I care for you, my readers, as I care for myself. And if it works great, if it doesn't, then it's okay to move on. So your question, coming back to how I got into this space with the Codexx and whatnot, before we can get into it, it's like, I think, Maslow's hierarchy. That's something I want to refer to. If we're all familiar with that, our needs, it starts from like, actually I forgot where it starts from, like, it starts from like, think your carnal bodily needs, right? And at the top or was at the bottom, I'm not sure which is which, but rather, the end goal of Maslow's hierarchy is self-actualization, right? It's purpose beyond yourself, right? It needs to be beyond yourself. And before you can get to that, you've got to... Go through those that pyramid where you know your need is food and water your need is connection your need is just safety and significance right all of that stuff first before so before you can get to purpose of this beyond yourself what is your contribution to the world right why are you here you know like that's you're not going to get there until you meet your needs first which is why I have a problem with feed a man a fish, give a man a fish, feed him for a day, but teaching him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime, right? But if my need is I'm starving, I'm starving, right? It doesn't matter how good of a teacher you are, I am not going to care about you teaching me how to fish, right? You're gonna give me that fishing, give it to me right now, right? That's all you're gonna care about. And that's the... Thing, right? We have a lot of that kind of advice. It's it's I get it right. But it's like, we all prefer to be led by and sales. This was the case, right? We leaders make new leaders, right? And people always talk about that, right? The LinkedIn audience love that quote, leaders make great leaders, right? But sometimes, I'm in the season of our life, I don't need to be led, I got to be, you've got to crack that whip, right? You've got to crack that whip, because I'm not going to do what I'm supposed to do, because I'm not in the season of my life where Leadership makes sense to me. So I was in a lot of pain and I guess that journey I was sharing was that I had a lot of needs that needed to be met, right? I needed to feel safe and I needed to feel significant. And I was meeting those two primary needs, safety and significance, which I would argue all of our multitude of needs kind of fall under, where we're acknowledged and that we're safe, significant security. I didn't meet those needs first and I was meeting those needs in really unhealthy ways. It was survive, whether I was a victim and I was cowering in a corner or cave somewhere or minimized myself, I was meeting that need of safety or I became this villain where I was like, you know, staunching people, trying to make a few money, right? And trying to prove to people that I someone you can, I would be worthy enough to be in a room with, right? So, you know, all comes down to meeting those needs. So when I finally, realized that I could meet those needs in a very healthy way without minimizing myself or being a bully, then through God in my journey, then I started to explore that. I started to feel safe with myself. I was fed. I had healthy relationships. I began to have a healthier, a little more expansive outlook on life. It was still kind of small, but was slowly getting stretched. And that's when I could look into Maslow's hierarchy. That's when I moved up that pyramid where I'm starting to self actualize. And what that means, self actualization means is having been able to observe myself, being aware of what's happening in my head, in my heart, in my mind, in my body, being able to question systems, question narratives, understanding that I have complete. Agency over my own life, right? And that's when I started to move into this, I guess, a season, right? A new season of my life where I was like, okay, now that I'm aware, I'm familiar, I know I have agency over my own life, I have sovereignty, right? We want to be the kings of our own lives, right? Not in that, you know, hip hop rap kind of king way, you know, but rather that we have true sovereignty. Right? So, and when I had that, I began to feel an emptiness in me because I was having all these basic needs, man. I began to feel an emptiness where I was like, now where is my life going to go? Like what am I meant to do in this world now? What am I meant to I was having an existential crisis now all of a sudden. And even though my mind and body started... I started taking care of my body and mind, but that was an emptiness in me and the emptiness is like, yeah, what is my contribution? Am I here just to raise a family and go to work and you know, be a good citizen or do I have something more to contribute to share as well? And that was like an ache that continued to grow bigger and bigger and And you know, I had a lot of, because I grew up as a victim, I had a lot of visibility wounds. So I never wanted to stand up for myself and even in sales because I was doing really, even when I was in sales and I was crushing it in sales, people used to think I was confident, but I was confident because I had the backing of my employer. Right. So I wasn't representing myself in all my sales interactions. I was Alan, the sales rep on behalf of, you know, so and such company. Right. So, know, that my identity was tied to that company. So in other words, that was a safety net for me. So I didn't, so it wasn't like they were rejecting Alan. They were rejecting the company I was working for. But Alan, as an individual, he didn't have a lot of security, even though he was crushing himself. So, you know, deep down, I felt that confidence I was building was just a facade for me where I could. Stand behind and not face my fears. But the reality was that when I was on my own by myself, that was not the case. And they call it self-sabotage, right? Like when you reach too far, right? And why do we self-sabotage? It's because we haven't built a system, a foundation within ourselves where it is safe to reach without the system forcing us back. So when I say system, it's who we are, how we operate, right? The laws in which we make this, in which our identities, the rules of our identities are wrapped around. That's what I mean by a system. So I had to, I never fixed that first. I never fixed that first. So that's tight. Sorry, coming back to the Codexx and how that started. I had an emptiness in me that needed to be sorted. And I also started seeing the how critical it was to fix the underlying system, which is our which is, as I mentioned, the laws governing our identity, who we think we are, right? So with those two things in mind, I started getting out onto social media, onto social media, and just telling myself I've got something to share with other people. And even though social media was all about having You know like a hot everyone's got a hot body or everyone's funny or everyone has to have a loud presence, right? I still put myself out there and You know tell myself that even if it helps one person I just one person someone like me I Get ahead in their life. They'd be totally worth it because I was that one person I wish there was someone out there for me who could speak to me So I didn't have to go through these years of trial and error, you know trying you know moving Along the spectrum trying to find out where I, who and where I wanted to be. So that's how the Codexx came about. And that's why at first I didn't know what it would look like. I just wanted to share, things that helped me. But as I built out the Codexx, right, which is really just a, a public diary for me, a public journal about my life. It eventually found its way into nervous system regulation, coherence, cybernetics. And spirituality in a way that is what it is now. In my efforts to try and communicate my journey in a way that is useful to someone that adds value and is, you know, and that is, I guess a little bit different from the advice, a lot of the advice you see out there that didn't work for me. Well, as they may be, they didn't just, they didn't work for me. So that's how the Codexx came about. Hey, Justin, I think you're on mute.

Maslow's Hierarchy: Safety, Significance, and Why "Teach a Man to Fish" Fails

Justin David Carl: So sorry, I was on mute to make sure that while I was drinking my beverage I wasn't making weird noises. When did you start creating content online? What your

Alan Hong: I think about two and a half years ago, and a half to three years ago. Yeah.

How the Codexx Began as a Public Diary

Justin David Carl: One of the most powerful things that I see any creator do is they use their platform to metabolize what they're going through. Which is exactly what you are doing, is as you're learning how to upgrade your own system, you are sharing the ideas, the tools, the strategies that you're using to upgrade your system. And this is one of my favorite concepts is What you teach is teaching you. So in my own creator journey, a big reason I create is to make sure I actually am learning what I think I'm learning and to the point where I can explain it to somebody else. Because if I can't explain it to somebody else, then I don't understand it. And There's an incredible amount of learning that happens when you take an idea or a concept or a tool or a strategy and you try to teach it to somebody else in a piece of content. And I think to me, the most Compelling creators are the ones who are creating because they have something inside them that needs to come out and be shared, not because they're trying to create a personal brand or be somebody online, but instead they're using the platform, whatever social media. Platform it is as a form of self-expression to document and undergo their own transformation, which is what you're doing. And I think it's why I love your content so much, is because at the heart of all my work is the core concept of the transformation journey. And the content that you create is all tools and strategies and frameworks for transformation. And what I mean by transformation is Healing, development, growth. Becoming more aligned, more centered with who you really are. And who you really want to be. And I just I'm so grateful that you're actually sharing all this as you're going. And I think so many people in this world Want to upgrade their system, but they don't know how to. And you said this thing earlier in our conversation where there's all these amazing, you know, philosophers and old ideas. And I think every generation has to have a set of thinkers or modern day philosophers that take those old ideas and put them into the current. Day's language. Because whatever Socrates or Marcus Aurelius said, most of us, it's written in a language that doesn't make any sense to us. But there's incredible wisdom in there. And what you're doing is you're taking that wisdom and you're transforming it into a language that the modern person of 2026 can actually. Understand and then implement in their own life because they can actually understand the idea, concept, or strategy. So I'm curious right now or over the last two and a half years, I'm sure you've mentioned some of them, but like but what are some of the sources of your own inspiration? Some of the key past thinkers, philosophers that you're reading their ideas and then putting your own twist on it and translating it into a language that someone like me can understand.

What You Teach Is Teaching You: Using a Platform to Metabolize Your Own Growth

Alan Hong: Yeah, so, you know, I think often it's said that most ideas have been shared. So there's nothing really original these days. I think there was a creator, there was a creator who mentioned online that there are no, Christo, yeah, he's a massive creator online. He mentioned that there are no originals. There's only original remixes. And that really spoke to me. So, A lot of which means that yeah, it really what you share what you mentioned earlier about extracting distilling a lot of ancient wisdom into something that's a little bit more digestible for a current or modern audience, right? It just comes down to remixing in a way where it speaks to them. So particular thought leaders in the space that I'm in that I read into would be so Richard Bandler, a lot of NLP. So, I mean, he's not ancient, but he's in this space. A lot of Eastern philosophy as well. So Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching, Confucius. These are a lot of wisdom pieces that I look into as well. Of course, the Stoics, absolutely. And really a lot of manifestation principles as well. So the Kybalion, probably familiar with that. We'll talk about the Hermetic principles. So, you know, these are some examples of inspiration that have really spoken, have spoke to me, but often there needs to be, for me, there had to be a bridge between ancient wisdom and the current messaging now, right? So when I was in that hustle culture, that do or die kind of life, it didn't really, I couldn't like reconcile ancient wisdom with that kind of knowledge right like it didn't work out like how come it doesn't fit how come it doesn't it doesn't work like that like just do it like you know there's that you know it's like you know there's people saying like fuck your mood just stick to the plan right like i get it right you know sometimes i get it like my mind gets it right but i'm not doing what i'm supposed to be doing and you know why aren't why am i doing when i shouldn't be doing and why am I not doing what I should be doing right and that didn't that did not work for me fuck your mood stick to the plan sadly right I'm crushed and other things like what's that book I forgot that book I'm just trying to think. I can't remember the specific book,

No Originals, Only Original Remixes: Lao Tzu, the Stoics, NLP, and the Hermetic Principles

Justin David Carl: You're not talking about the guy who's like super hard and does all the super long ultra distance long running stuff. Yeah.

David Goggins vs. Wim Hof: Two Ways to Conquer a Literal Mountain

Alan Hong: David Goggins. Yeah. Yeah. So I look, David Goggins is an example. I absolutely want to give him credit. Like I, you know, just practically no one that can do what he can do. Hence why he's such a, an amazing, a person to, look at because, know, he's, clearly pushed the boundaries of what the body can do. That's just not going to be possible for, for some people. And I just could not do that. I could not do that. And when I compare his story to Wim Hof, the Iceman, he didn't do what David Goggins did, like run on legs that felt like they were broken. And the man still conquered a mountain, a literal mountain, with nothing but breathwork and somatic well-being. And I think a lot of ancient wisdom points to that. Through what Wim Hof did. And I love that he did that and he put breath work on the map because it's so ancient, but he tested it, right? I couldn't envision alpha male red pill popping individual to be able to conquer a literal mountain, using all their bravado and that fire they talk about, right? I'm like, okay, good luck. Let's see you climb that literal mountain, but Wim Hof did. And that really just shows me how relevant some of this wisdom, where it talks about slowing down, a lot of Eastern philosophy talks about, I think it was Lao Tzu who talks about slow is fast, fast is slow. And that sounds well and good, but how do you make that very clear for modern audiences? And that's how I'm trying to... Combined the two in language that we're familiar with now. Language from a, like people are very big on science, right? They want to see what's the science behind X and what's the behind this, right? And fortunately, if you zoom out, life is connected in so many ways that it works as a system. But when you're in survival mode, all you can see is point A to point B and your really ignoring a lot of the multitude of variables that has caused point A to get to point B where point A point B works. That makes sense. For example, like you go to the gym and people talk about isolation exercise, right? Bicep curls. You know, if you want to do a bicep curl, do, if you want to work your biceps, you do a bicep curl and they call it isolation exercise because you're just working the bicep. And yes, you are, but you know, a big part of it is just the bicep, but you know, it's the biceps attached to your tricep, which is attached to your shoulder and your forearm and you know, your brain has to make it move. And there's all these other things happening in your body in order for that bicep to curl up. Right. And I think we kind of ignore all of these things in our lives that make that happen. But a bicep, know, same thing as the self-made man, right? No one's really self-made. Are so many people are part of that journey, right? Like you, the teacher who said, A kind word to you that set things off for that client that gave you your first shot, right? You might have knocked on that door, it might have been your thousandth no, but it was still a client who gave you an opportunity. And I think this idea of self-made is deceptive, right? Because there are so many people are part of that journey that has given someone opportunities and contributed to that person's self-made success. So, I guess that's what I'm trying to communicate that we need to understand that it's more than just simply that what we want in life is not a straight line, guys. It is not a straight line. It's not A to B. It's not that simple at times, right? But rather, we have to appreciate that there are other faculties happening. And what I think Eastern philosophy fails to do is sometimes, oh, it actually does do it. I do apologize. It does talk about the relationship between different elements in life, right? It does talk about relationships and the connections between different entities in life. But often it's a bit too abstract. So, because people love science, I'd love to understand how all works. I think there's, so my work is all about finding that connection to share how can we explain it in language that highlights those connections that we might not be able to, we might not appreciate now day to day because we're so in it. If that makes sense.

The Bicep Curl and the Myth of the Self-Made Man

Justin David Carl: Yeah. So I wanna make this a little bit more tangible for people. This is amazing and I think it was necessary for us to lay the foundation and the groundwork to understand who you are, where you're coming from in your journey. And now I wanna talk about Something that is easy for people to understand. And I'm gonna ask you a question. And I want to hear your answer. So what does it look like when someone is succeeding externally but abandoning themselves internally?

Nonviolent Communication: Needs Are Valid, Strategies Are the Problem

Alan Hong: Okay, so that is a great question. To answer that question, I want to come back to there's a communication method called NVC. It's called nonviolent communication, right? So was created by a guy called Dr. Marshall Rosenberg, really amazing man, and he talked about how we can communicate to each other. And it was really around the expression of our needs. And often a breakdown of communication was that, like it comes down to us not meeting our own needs, right? That expression of communication. And then you had a, I think a graph that talked about, it starts off with need, what our needs are. And then it comes and then that need is expressed through a feeling. So our body signals to us what their need is through emotions. What are we feeling happy, sad, and based on that feeling, we will implement a strategy, right? And the problem is feelings and needs are very important. Right? We, our needs, our feelings are valid. Our needs are our needs. But the issue is, is how we try and meet those needs through what strategy that we use. Right? So, if I'm hungry, right, that's a need and I'm feeling a little bit down in energy. A strategy could be, I might go to, Maccas, right? To fill up, but that's really unhealthy. That's not going to look good. Whereas another strategy, it could be like I could cook up a nice steak with vegetables, right? So the same needs still being met, but through different strategies. So someone who is externally successful, right, but is dying inside, right? What that abandonment looks like is that they're using the wrong strategy to meet that need, if that makes sense. So we all want external success. Right? I mean, not all, but most of us do. That's part of a healthy life to succeed. But the problem is, is when we're using the wrong strategy to meet that need, right? And often why we choose certain strategies, like how we choose certain strategies is based off what we've been told. You know, the external narratives that have been communicated to us, the truths that we've been fed. In order to get XYZ. Right. So that's how that's that's how we just make our decisions in life. So someone who is externally successful, but internally, you know, fragmented, they've been using the wrong strategy to meet their need. Right. If they feel externally fragmented based on a, a external narrative that is a lie, which is you've got to sacrifice in order to something. That balance is weakness. That sleep is, you can sleep when you're dead. So it's that, it's those truths that are, you know, I guess influencing someone to apply a strategy that is not consistent with what they truly need, which is I need to be healthy. I want to be balanced. I don't want to kill myself, but also want to be successful. And I feel like that can only happen based on the truths that they believe. And often, as I mentioned, there's external narratives that they've been fed from the younger years.

Succeeding Externally While Abandoning Yourself Internally

Justin David Carl: Yeah. Great explanation. And I'm gonna put it into some context. So my first Career started with internships while I was still at college. And those internships were in investment banking. And the culture and narrative that I was in at college at Stanford was successful Stanford students either go work at investment banks or consulting companies. And I made it even worse by being part of a business fraternity where everybody went to the top investment banks and top consulting firms. And so for a year and a half, I was doing these investment banking internships, knowing deep down, this is not what I really wanted to do. But The Programming of my environment told me this is what you should be doing. So externally getting these internships with companies like Morgan Stanley in New York City was very successful. I was on the right track. But I was so unhappy and already could feel that I was abandoning myself, even though I didn't know what I wanted. I just knew that was not it. And so my solution to that was to decide that okay, I'm there's a million ways to make money. I'm gonna go find another way. And the only thing I could think of was to go work in the nightclub business because before I went to school or college, I took a gap year and I lived in Barcelona and I went out to the nightclubs four, five, six nights a week, and I loved it because nightclubs were like were this amazing combination of music, art, fashion, culture, design, all things that I loved. And so, okay, it's not investment banking. Maybe it's nightclubs. And then I went and got into that world. Started making a bunch of money, driving the fancy car, going to all the nice restaurants, got the high-rise condo. And within the first year and a half of being in the industry, I knew it wasn't what I was meant to do long term. But I was so addicted to The financial earning power I had, the social success I had because I was the man of the club. These were my parties. I had A-list celebrities coming to them, all these beautiful women, beautiful men. And it took me another six and a half years to. Of abandoning myself before I the pain was so great that I was able to get out of it. And but I literally had to knowingly abandon myself for six and a half years till the pain became so great that I knew I had to get out of it or I was gonna probably commit suicide. And along that journey of abandonment, while I was making all this money and being Mr. Cool Guy of the nightclubs, I was doing a lot of drugs and alcohol to suppress the pain of knowing that I was not really doing what I wanted to do in this world. And so but The I what I'm trying to say is you explained it from a intellectual level so simply, but I think from a human experience, I didn't have your content on Instagram back then. So I did not understand what I was going through. And essentially the reason it took a year and a half of investment banking, eight years of nightlife is because all of this unfolded without much outside education or guidance or wisdom. And so I was just trying and failing my way forward until the pain became so great that I had to make a change. And I think a lot of people do this where They know they get into a career and they know within three or four months after the honeymoon phase wears off that this is not it. But from the outside, they look successful. So they keep playing that role because they're being rewarded externally for playing that role. And then this is why many people wake up in their 40s and And they're fucking miserable asking them themselves questions such as is this really it? Is this all there is? And many people at this time go through divorce, they major career changes, suicide, drug and drinking problems, all sorts of different ways to. Just realize that they have been abandoning themselves and it's time to make a change and start to move into greater alignment with their true self, which is much easier said in a conversation between you and me than done. But for someone who realizes that they have abandoned themselves for a set of a set of cultural values or programming that says they should be happy with what they have, what would you recommend that person who realizes, holy shit, I'm not living the life I really want to live. And even though I look successful, I feel completely empty inside and I want to start making a change. What would you tell them?

Justin's Investment Banking Years and Eight Years in Hollywood Nightlife

Alan Hong: Yeah, so I think it's really subjective, right? So, you know, someone in your shoes, Justin, and I get it because I went through that as well. Like, you know, if without the intellectual knowledge behind it, you sort of go with that experience and make choices, hopefully, right? That serve you, right? It's all about serving what you need to and needs another right or wrong. Right. So you know someone eating a big mac might be unhealthy intellectually but at that time that's the that probably is the most self-serving thing that they need in order to serve themselves right so eat that big mac and as such what i'm trying to say is someone in your shoes that lived that night life is still probably doing that happy as happy as larry right they don't feel like they're self-abandoning and they're still living it up and having beautiful you know people and they you know that's that's their life that's what they've chosen and you asked them if they were on a call with us today that completely wearing your shoes. Probably, there might be a version of you out there who's totally happy, who doesn't feel like it's self abandonment, even though they are paying that price. Because I think self abandonment is really a way of saying it's when the cost of, it's when the cost exceeds the value, you know, of what it is that you're, that you're, that you're trying to pursue or have pursued or have attained, have gained, right? It's like a gym membership, you know, if we pay every month for a gym membership and we continue to pay because the value exceeds the cost, right? But as soon as that cost exceeds the values, like I'm not going anymore and it's hard to go and whatnot, that's when we're like, well, why am I paying this? Why am I paying money out of my pocket? Right? So in the same example, the same metaphor is like, why am I paying parts of myself for XYZ when I'm simply not getting the value anymore? Right? So on paper to somebody else having all the money and all the flashcards and the nice apartment might seem is valuable to that person, right? Is valuable to that person. And to them, even though you're like, it makes me feel empty, to them, self-sacrifice is a price that they are willing to pay in order to get what you have right now. But in a way, they're unable to see that self-abandonment because they've never really, they're not able to. They, guess they're not in position to spend that money, right? And that money is in your sweat, blood and tears, your experiences. I'm sure you went through a lot of hard yards to get to that point and self-sacrifice. So they're unable to quantify how painful it actually is in order to get to XYZ because they've never done it before. So, but they can visualize how beautiful it would taste to be in your shoes, right? And then result, but they're unable to. Visualize the cost because they've just never been through it and that's why a lot of people still pursue all of that flash stuff because they're unable to Yeah, and you know, they've never They never it's never costed them in a way where they've they've gotten to that point So but to them they're like I will definitely be able to do that, but they are named but it's But it's in but they're not What's the word being? I guess what I'm trying to say is they're unable to make it tangible. It's not a tangible experience for them to realize. I think Jim Carrey said, I wish everyone got a million dollars, millions of dollars in their lives so they realize how miserable it is. And that's the key, you know, until they get that, they don't realize the cost. So, and that's what it comes down to. The question, the answer. I think to your question is how do we know when we'd suffer benefits when it costs too much to maintain what we have, right? So yes, it's valuable to have people look at you and acknowledge you because wealth, because one of our greatest needs is significance. You know, we want to be loved. We want people to acknowledge us. Even a kind word is acknowledgement. It doesn't have to be a movie star. Just, you know, a lot of people would love to just go. Someone come into their lives or get a random text and just go, hey, how's it going? Right? That's, that is significance. I feel significant. I'm, I'm seen, I'm, seen and safety, security, right? I, get that we, we all want that, right? But, it's, that's, that's the value we tie it and we can continue to receive that if self abandonment was a price that you'd be happy to pay to get that, to discard your most important needs in order to get the acknowledgement, then so be it. Right? You can live in alignment to that. Alignment is not about what's the right way or the wrong way. Alignment is simply what you need. If self-sacrifice is the price that you're willing to pay to get all of that, then that is alignment. As much as you look at that and you're like, whoa, that is totally unhealthy, but that is alignment. They're living in accordance to their needs. But for you and I, Justin, that wasn't in accordance to our deep needs. That value was diminishing in time. The significant security we got from other people, external validation was slowly, a diminishing returns to the price that we were paying. And as such, that's when we realized that self abandonment because the price is too much. Like when we can't continue to fork out, you know, a hundred dollars a day or whatever it is, you know, if we could tend quantify it in order to get, in order to maintain that lifestyle, because it's just not meeting our need anymore. That makes sense even though it's something other people would want you know one man one man's trash is another man's treasure so to speak so what was treasure to use their trash and but someone else looks at that as treasure right and they're to pay whatever it is in order to get that if that makes sense I've got ADHD so it's bouncing around

When the Cost Exceeds the Value: The Gym Membership Test

Justin David Carl: Yeah. No, this is great. So I think for me I had to First in the nightclub business, I tried to solve the sacrifice by self-medicating. Which which I knew was not gonna work well long term. And I think what's important is Recognizing that we live in a world now that has so many options in order Or so many options that allow us to meet our needs in ways that are aligned with the current season of ourself. And when we realize that the cost of maintaining a certain system of life is no longer worth paying. We can either ignore that signal, and in my experience, that signal usually turns into self sabotage through self medicating with substances or depression. That's been my experience. And I'm sure there's other ways this can manifest, but usually they're non positive things. That start to show up when and that are basically some part of yourself, the universe, whatever you believe in, trying to tell you it's time for a change. And we can ignore those signals and wait for it to get so bad that we're forced to make a change, or we can listen to those signals and start to gradually make a much less full. Painful change because we're listening to the signals that our spirit, our mind, our body, our life, the universe, whatever you believe in is telling us. And we can start to act on those signals before it becomes so loud that you can ignore them. And I think this is a good time for us to shift into. State first identity shifts. So what does state first mean, Alan?

What "State" Means, and Why State Comes Before Strategy

Alan Hong: So state is really the underlying settings that determine how we, how we feel, what we choose to do in any given moment. So whether you're happy or sad or neutral, that's, really what state's all about. So the reason why I talk about state-based identity shifts is because A lot of, lot of us out there is solution, solution advice. Need to do, it's a lot of strategies, a lot of us out there. It's all strategy based. You know, like if you want to lose weight, go to the gym. If you want to make more money, get a better paying job, get promoted. If you want to, you know, if you want a great relationship, this is what you're to do. But what they don't acknowledge is the person doing it. Right. And that's the problem I had. For example, I, I've mentioned, I've, I've, so I got, so I have ADHD. I'm diagnosed whether that's a real thing or not. I don't know. But, the point is that, for the longest time I was reading books that were designed for neurotypical folks, right? Non ADHD people, about productivity, right? Just have a to-do list have, like, what's that quadrant where it's urgent, important, important. Not urgent and think it was Stephen Covey, can't quite remember that but those tools work in theory and it makes sense to me but I just wasn't able to execute on those strategies because often I was bored or I was sad or I just didn't feel like it or was depressed, right? And it comes back to what I mentioned earlier when people say, fuck your mood stick to plan, I get that but I wasn't able to do that. I wasn't able to push through my emotions. I wasn't able to put aside my emotions and execute on those strategies. I was a financial planner once upon a time as well. But before that, I had a really bad relationship with money because I was just spending, spending, And people say, well, stop spending safe. I'm like, okay, great advice, but I'm not saving or spending. I just wasn't in the mood or whatever. And a lot of folks out there, the consensus is, is it you're lazy or you're not disciplined? And okay, sure, that might be the case. But you can change that. Pushing through and being disciplined is not the only strategy. There are infinite strategies out there to meet a need. Like I said, if you're hungry, two strategies is you can have a nice steak and veggies. So not only are you full, but you're healthy, but... Or you can go and have a Big Mac, right? So the strategy about like putting your emotion side and just pushing through, that's a strategy and it has worked for people. You see it all the time, you hear it, know, billionaires whereby you're gonna push through the emotions and you know, it for them. Maybe that's why they're a billionaire. I don't know. But for me, I couldn't do it. I had to look at nervous system work. I had to regulate, right? Which is what a lot of my work is all about. So, and in order to execute strategies, I want to take a step back or zoom out rather and go before strategy, it's state. So I always took a lot of my content. It's state before strategy, state before strategy. Because if you're not in the right state, and we all know, right? When we're at work and our state is anger, it doesn't matter how good your strategies are, you're going to execute the wrong strategy or you're going to execute the right strategy very poorly. And that's just an example. We're not always angry. Some of us, right? That's just in the moment. Most of time we're in a good state, right? Most people. But for me, when I talk about state, I guess I'm zooming out again. It's a state that really is your identity. So some of us might be angry in a moment, but some of us, sadly, are angry all the time or depressed all the time or just not happy all the time or... Maybe too happy all the time and they're not real with life, right? So we have to So it really comes back to state like and state is what is your what is the underlying rules? And settings that you're operating from right now if I was to look at a human being as a system and a system is really a collection of parts that work in Connection to get bar based and that operate based on feedback If we are a system, because we are a bunch of parts, right? We're a bunch of systems actually, you know, with a muscular system, a lymphatic system, a nervous system, you know, there's so many parts of us, moving parts that operate based on information, which we use as feedback, right? To make decisions, then state is the underlying instruction of how that system operates, the state. You know, is it healthy? Is it unhealthy? Is it happy? Is it angry? That's what the state is. All right, so that's what... So I talk about if you want to change who you are, if you want to, you know, change your identity as such, you've got to look at your state first because you're not changing anything. If you're in the wrong state, that makes sense. If you're using the wrong rules, the wrong, settings.

Justin's Identity Shift: From Looking Rich to FI

Justin David Carl: Yeah, as you're talking, I was thinking through some of my own state first identity shifts. So I think one that is really easy for me to share to contextualize what you're talking about is the Hollywood Justin looking rich state. And that meant spending a hundred and ten to a hundred and twenty percent of everything I made and leaving that career in debt because I wanted to quote unquote look the part that I had made it. And then when I left the nightclub business and I went back and finished my degree at Stanford University, I ended up working in SF Bay area for a startup and ended up doing saled B2B sales and that coincided with my discovery of the concept of financial independence. And I was immediately enamored by the idea of achieving financial independence early in life. And even though I never had any intention of retiring early because I figured I'd always do something, the idea of being free of having to work. Or do something I didn't want to do but had to do it because I needed the money. Caused me to choose a new identity. And that new identity was I am a FI person. I'm a financial independence person and I am on the FI journey. And so I chose this whole new state of being. Purely by choice, a decision. So I'm no longer looking rich Hollywood Justin. I am now Financial Independence Journey Justin. And it made it so easy for me to say, fuck this Range Rover. I'm selling it and I'm getting a Prius. I am no longer gonna eat out at restaurants for the foreseeable. Future. So I didn't eat out at restaurants for almost three years unless someone else was paying. Because my number one goal was to achieve financial independence as fast as possible while having as much fun as possible. So even though to some, not going out to restaurants for multiple years would be miserable, it was so fun for me because this identity that I chose. It was normal to cook all your food at home so that you could save more money and invest more money every month and get the financial independence even faster. And that is, I think, the power of consciously choosing to change your state by choosing a new identity that has a system of rules and Do's and do not that align with the goal that you're trying to achieve. So I chose this identity of I am a FI person, a FI person, a financial independence person. Therefore, the priority is to save as much of money as possible and invest as much money as possible. And I chose to do that with the mindset that I'm going to treat this like a big fun adventure. And for me, it was super fun. And so I'm curious your thoughts on when someone wants to make a state first identity shift. What are some ways that they can do it? I just randomly chose to do this because I was inspired by this idea of achieving financial independence because my history, you know, growing up poor and fucking up my finances in my twenties, I was like I'm gonna fucking figure out my money and this is the new identity I'm gonna take on, but I kind of just did it by happenstance. If someone wants to do a state first identity shift, what are some tools or strategies or recommendations that you would give them out?

Why Identity Has to Be Secured Before New Habits Will Hold

Alan Hong: Yeah, no, and Justin, congratulations, mate. Wonderful, like making that choice and be able to stick with it, which is awesome. And I think that's the, and look, honestly, I think a lot of us, all of us would wish we could make that, make a choice like you did. And we can, you it's not hard to choose. It's, I think the challenge is to stick with your choice, right? So can I ask when you were able to make that identity shift, that state-based shift? Did you ever backslide into your lifestyle? Was it sort of like a volatile, you found yourself like doing things that you or you know, for example, you mentioned you never ate out once after that. That so you never once ate out and is all home cooked meals like you never, you know, your old system told you this, which is, which is how your system was entrained to operate, like go out and flash money and eat a nice restaurants and never dragged you back because that's what nervous system regulation is all about, right? It's understanding that, hey, there are really old patterns, old code that is within us that our system uses to make decisions in our lives. And the minute we make a conscious choice to step into a new identity, that system has to shift. And a good system should not break, if that makes sense. So if you were efficient at being a nightclub owner, spending money and doing all those things, which were, I'm curious as to how did you make a conscious choice to be FI without your old system trying to rein you back into that previous life?

Growing Up Poor, $80K in Debt, and Reprogramming Through Daily FI Content

Justin David Carl: That's a great question. And The first thing I wanna say is I'm not sure if this is just how I'm built. But I am an extremist in certain regards. I will decide I'll discover something and I'll go zero to a hundred in two seconds. And my wife Throughout our entire twelve year relationship, it always amazes her or astonishes her or makes her laugh because I just had a recent example of this in the last fourteen months. I played pickleball for the first time in April of twenty twenty four and then immediately went to playing six to seven days a week and Basically, I play five to seven days a week for the last 14 months. And so this is sort of how I am. So I think that's part of my answer is I this may be my encoding is I discover something, I realize I want that, or I'm I love it, or I'm obsessed with it, and I just go all in. The second part of my answer is there was so much financial pain in all of my life growing up poor. I still to this day remember my parents fighting about money. I remember being scared to ask for new soccer shoes because money was so stressful and being on the free lunch program at school, which was embarrassing, but we're so Poor, that the school gave us lunch for free. And there was the pain of that stress, the shame, and then making all this money working in the nightclub industry. And to be clear, I know you don't know my backstory. I never owned a nightclub. I just threw all the parties and I managed all the VIP table clients, all the big spenders, and I Had teams of promoters and through all these different parties, but I made a lot of money back in 07, 2006 to 2000, end of 2013. I was making two to three hundred thousand dollars a year back then, which in with inflation is probably three hundred and fifty to four hundred and fifty thousand plus in today's dollars. And Despite making all that money, I was fucking in debt when I left that industry. And feeling like I had totally fucked up. Why can't I seem to hold on to this money I'm making? And because there was just the shame of being in debt, I was six years behind on my taxes when I ended up leaving that industry and the shame of being behind on my taxes, which my parents were always behind on their taxes. So I literally just did what my parents did. So I think there was enough pain that when I saw this solution was to go on to this financial independence journey, and that there was a set of strategies, tools, techniques that I could follow, it made it so I never backslid. And here's the third part of my answer. So first is I may be built this way. Second, there was so much fucking pain. And third Is I religiously consumed financial independence content. So every day I was reading blogs, listening to podcasts. For hours every day. So I was programming my mind for this new identity every single day. Programming and reprogramming. Programming and reprogramming. This is what FI people do. This is what FI people don't don't do. That's old Justin. This is new Justin. And so I never So I still for the record, you don't know me, but I you know, I'm past the hyperfrugal phase 'cause you know, I'm a multimillionaire now financially independent. So me and my wife eat out one to four times a week on a normal week and every day when we travel. So I eat at restaurants now. But so I think those three things together, the maybe this is how I'm built, the pain, and then the priming the pump every single day with the new identity through the content consumption of podcasts and blogs was how I was able to do it and pretty much never backslide. So

Blended Chicken Breast and the Anatomy of a Backslide

Alan Hong: Yeah, yeah, I see. Okay. That is incredible. I think that makes a lot of sense to me. It's just, you know, there's so many people out there who want to change. And I'm like, Whoa, Justin, just you were able to just go like that. And it had just happened. And in fact, I was a bit of extremist as well. So yes. Yeah. For sure.

Justin David Carl: It took years for the financial stuff to change, but the habits of a FI person, I put those into place as fast as possible and then kept those habits going. So keep going. I just wanted to I wanna explain like I it's not like I went from eighty thousand dollars in debt to millionaire in twenty four hours. It took a couple of years. But and I went very fast 'cause I'm an extremist. But back to you, so keep going.

Alan Hong: No, no, I absolutely get that. So of course it does take time. You know, it's like going to the gym, right? Like, but like what is a given is when you step into that identity of FI Justin, that's a given, right? Time is no longer time to work itself out, right? It will work itself out. And however long you took it took, right? But more importantly, it's you were able to get to that point because you were able to stick to that identity. And that's, I think that's the The problem people are unable to stick to that identity. So you mentioned three things you did in order to maintain that FI Justin identity without regressing or backsliding into old nightclub Justin was, let's start with the easy one. Not easy one, but something most people would understand the content like reading up on financial advice, getting educated on that, understanding the patterns. Strategies, all that kind of stuff, which is often what a lot of people focus on, the strategies involved. But what holds that together or makes it just in time rather than just in case advice, as they say, you've got to be executing and applying that stuff, is the first two you mentioned. So you're encoding, which is really interesting. I'm an extreme person as well because I was told life was either right or wrong. So when I was, if I may share, I was working out and I wanted to have that body, right, where I didn't feel weak, I was on a diet where I blended chicken breast, because I hated eating it. So I would blend chicken breast and water and that was it. And sweet potato and broccoli all in the blender, all in the NutriBullet 6000 or whatever it was. And I would just drink that. I would just drink that every day and no salt, no sugar. You know, was that and I did that for a year and I looked great, but I was miserable inside. And eventually what happens is I backslid. All right, Justin, you keep going with FI, right? You were able to like eat at home, but I mean, that killed my life. And I, but I did it for a year and I died because I didn't have the identity, right? I wasn't securing my identity. So I don't know if I could keep doing that now that I know what I know, but that's how extreme I was. And, that was not part of my encoding, unfortunately. Right? Like I was pushed by your second, but a second point, you said pain, right? There was so much pain. So for me, there was so much pain that pushed me in that direction. But the reality is I couldn't, I thought to me the cost was too much, right? The pain didn't make sense. For some people, their pain is not painful enough where it would help them. Shift identities for them, their pain is simply an inconvenience that they, that it's a reality of life that I'm going to be on welfare for the rest of my life. So be it, you know, it sucks, but it's not bad enough that I feel like I need to do anything about it. Right. Whereas Justin, you yourself, the pain was not just an inconvenience. It was like hell on earth. And I think for some of us, right, like until that pain gets to that point and pain is subjective, right. Some people was like, how could you ever live like that? And some people are like, I live just fine. I don't know, it's not ideal, but I live just fine. Then, you know, until it gets to that point, then you're really not going to make any change. And I think a lot of us, right, life is so convenient that, you know, you mentioned you're self-medicated. A lot of have us have so much dopamine distractions that we can manage the pain and it's never serious enough where we have to shift or move no matter how serious, no matter how painful our upbringings were. And in many cases, like you said, was, I couldn't shift into this new Alan for so many years because you know, the pain either wasn't painful enough or I was dopamine. I had a lot of dopamine distractions that prevented me from realizing how bad it was. So for, for, so I guess I'm really speaking to those guys. You know, like, there's that idea behind. Clean fuel and dirty fuel. I don't know if you're familiar with those. You're probably familiar with this terms dirty fuel and clean fuel. Like when it's dirty, it's that pain. Like my parents were this way or my upbringing was this way or people that bet against me, you know, it's that like, if you fuck you all, I'm going to show you all right. And some, you know, some, for some people that's a spark for others. That's their whole life. They continue to live their life that way and they express and then that's their identity. So, Sorry, I'm off on a tangent, but like your original question was, how does someone become, does someone shift their identity through state base, is that right? Like, is that the original? Yeah.

The Hero's Journey: Why Other People's Stories Fuel Your Own

Justin David Carl: Yeah, that's part of my question. I mean, I was also just reflecting on how I did it. And you know, one point that I wanna share is when it came to the content consumption, not only was I reading about the strategies, but I was listening to stories of other people's financial independence journey. And I would be inspired s hearing or reading about other people's journey. So there was this element of spirit almost seeing their human spirit go through this journey that gave me energy to say, Hey, they did it, I can do it too. Or and with some of them, I could see ver parts of their story lining up with my own story.

Alan Hong: Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.

Justin David Carl: Others it was so different than me, but I still found it intriguing to hear their journey. And so it was a combination of reading and listening to the strategies, the tools and the techniques, but also witnessing the hero's journey of these other people's financial independence journey. But I do agree with you. So both in my money and my fitness journey, it was driven by pain, which is dirty fuel. And it's unsustainable long term if you want to be happy and at peace. And I think there are a lot of people online who are very successful who are driven by pain. And they continue to use that as their main fuel. And it their whole identity, their whole brand is built around that pain. And I know that is not The life I want to live. I don't want everything I did I do to be driven by pain. And I now the things I do I think are done from a place of love and other healthier. Sources the fuel, but I freely admit that when I first got a six pack it was driven by pain. And when I was pursuing financial independence for the first several years, it was driven by pain. And probably still is. I think I'm at a good place in my fitness journey where it's much more about self love and self acceptance. And I think I'm moving into that with my money. But I'm in the middle of that when it comes to my money, where I'm still there's the fear of poverty and being poor and the scarcity and wait a minute, life is so fucking abundant, and I can continue to grow my abundance and I can have fun doing it and doesn't have to be driven by pain. But I don't know how consciously I don't know how to s go from the pain to the clean source of energy. I just have unconsciously sort of done it.

Dirty Fuel vs. Clean Fuel and the Hidden Price of Pain-Driven Success

Alan Hong: That's awesome. That is awesome. I wish, you know, the grass is always greener, right? Just even now, even despite the work, and I hear your story and I'm like, geez, I wish I had that, part of that encoding in me as well. And I think for myself, I struggle with that. Just couldn't make a decision when I decided a new identity and stick with it. Like I kept regressing, kept backsliding. And for me at the least, and hopefully for my audience is to those I speak to is that I recognize that some of us sadly just don't have that encoding where we can use that pain efficiently, even if you want to call it efficiently, efficient use of that pain, right? Like it's all fuel regardless. But I guess the problem with dirty fuel pain, and using it, having it to, I guess, it as an ongoing fuel source is that it taps into our survival system, our survival programming. And the human body, it's entrained over millions of years to survive. That's why it's weird. Like, even though I consciously and mentally know that if I wanted to eat, I could just pick up my phone and get an Uber Eats to come, right? Like, I know that, that I will never be. Starving like it's just 20 minute drive right 10 minute drive. My body doesn't know that so even if I eat that Big Mac it will still like Conserve all those nasty calories just in case I die. I'm not going to have a meal tomorrow. Is it interesting? Like I know that in my head that I have all the calories I need but my body does not know that's why unless I keep going to gym It's going to continue giving me a dirty burger is gonna give me a massive waste right in it. So It's critical to understand as much as we think that we know our bodies and our minds, like it's still a survival machine above all else, which means that if you're going to continue using dirty fuel, using pain to drive you, you're going to, it's going to activate the natural survival mechanisms in us to push through where we're always tense, where we see threats everywhere, where we're bracing ourselves against rejection and The minute someone comes at us, might not flee by survival programming, right? The expression of survival program usually manifests in fight, flight, freeze, or fawn, right? So in our workspace, right? We might not, you might think, I'm not on survival programming. I stand up for myself, but you're really activating the fight mechanism that you're going to challenge this person. You're going to be outspoken. You're going to disregard. Dispute what they're saying, right? And in some cases you win, right? A lot of leaders and a lot of alpha authorities tend to stand in that kind of power, but it's a survival power, right? And then the office, guess, on the other hand, is servant leadership, right? But that's a whole other thing, right? So the leadership. So that's why over time, we feel like something's not working, right? I'm getting X results. I'm whatever, but what's happening is it's low grade. We don't often feel it, it's low grade or society reframes that survival program and they celebrate it, Champions don't sleep, Nine to nine is a badge of honor, right? Working 12 hours a day is a badge of honor. And so they reframe that pain. But your body doesn't understand that, right? Your body is a survival mechanism and if you continue to push your body through that kind of those behaviors, you're going to always be activated. And that's going to dysregulate you and use resources that your body has only is only meant to put away for survival, for survival. But if you're constantly activated, it's going to wear down your immune system, it's going to wear down yourself over time, your mental health, your physical health, your emotional health. And that's what people don't understand is that... Sorry, I'm off on the tangent again, but like that's what people don't understand is that pain activates your survival system and your survival system, the activation of it has consequences. There is a huge cost to having it constantly activated all the time. If we don't accept the truth that's what's happening, then we're going to be in a position where we're like, I feel empty, I feel sad, no matter my external success, because we're using our survival system in order to achieve what we want.

Your Body Doesn't Know You're Safe: Fight, Flight, Freeze, Fawn

Justin David Carl: Yeah. And I totally agree with you. And I believe that's the reason that so many people suffer from various diseases, various cancers, and this is, you know, my belief. But stress Is the silent killer. It stress ongoing stress for years and years and years. And if you're operating from this, you know, survivor energy, your body's in a constant state of stress. And then eventually the machinery being under that stress for so many years compounded manifests in The body breaking down. And how many people we d do we know, either friends or family, who seems healthy and then suddenly they have some sort of cancer that seems like it came out of nowhere, but they exercised, ate well, but their stress management was lacking, and they've been operating from this survivor. Energy. So one of the questions I had for you, because I don't I feel like I'm in the middle of understanding what we're talking about, but I don't totally understand. And one of my questions for you is what is the opposite of the survivor energy or archetype. So if I if I know that's not good for me, it's gonna lead to my never-ending stress that's gonna eventually manifest in disease, what is the state of operation that is opposite of the survivor? Or survival. What is that?

Stress as the Silent Killer

Alan Hong: Yeah, that's a tough question because there's a lot of answers to it and, you know, depending on the lens, you might look into that question for your personal trainer. Well, you know, ask the PT what would be the opposite of survival or a health specialist or financial planner, right? They'd all have different answers, right? To what survival looks like because, you know, it's interesting. We need so many things in order to, we don't need so many things, but there are. I dare say a number of different factors that help us live in a way where we're not activating the survival system, right? And I guess the answer to me for that is coherence, right? Which is what my brand is all about, coherence. So coherence is really alignment. And what does alignment mean? And that's where I got stuck with people in the woo woo space. Always talk about alignment. So to me alignment is when your mind, your body and your heart. So heart in a metaphoric sense, I'm not talking about the physical organ, but heart is a deeper meaning, right? Like self actualization, the deeper meaning. When your mind, body and heart are all aligned, that's when you move out of survival. That's when you move out of survival. Because survival is all about living. How do I survive right now? How do I survive right now? But coherence is about living. Sovereignly where You are in control. You have agency over your own life. Even when things are working against you still have agency Okay So that's Okay, here's okay. It's all about living in alignment to what you need what you want and Making sure the strategies all line up to that as well in a way that material needs, I said earlier alignment, even someone who has unhealthy habits, they're in like in a way like they you could say they were living in alignment because to them what they what they want their mind body and heart is in alignment. That's why I guess A lot of folks out there, know, some people think it's unfair that evil people, evil people or bad people get what they want, but they get what they want because they live in alignment that their heart, mind, body and actions are all aligned that they don't have. They're not doubting themselves. There's no consequences over the decisions. There's no uncertainty over what they want and what they need. It's all in alignment. So a healthy life is about alignment, it's about making decisions in alignment with your need and the expression of it. We're like going to the gym or eating healthy, right? It's all aligned. You're not going to the gym because... Society will accept you because they love a six pack or whatever. You're getting a six pack for yourself. That's what you choose and that's what you love. Not because someone else has told you that's what you need. Because if that's what you want, then there's no point getting a six pack just because the world loves it. Feel free, go get a dad bod if you want, a big pot belly. That's what you want. And there's nothing wrong with that. And that's about self love. Some people have... That buzz in there and they're super healthy, right? But they're in alignment with themselves. So that's what that is the opposite of survival is living in accordance to what you want and what you need. Does that make sense?

Coherence: Mind, Body, and Heart in Alignment as the Opposite of Survival

Justin David Carl: Yeah. I love that idea of coherence. And I didn't even mean to make that bridge for you to your own work. I was just trying to understand what the opposite of survival is, but I think you're a hundred percent coherence, alignment. Cause if you're in coherence and in alignment, then all the stress from surviving is not in play. And I think your work really teaches people how to create coherence and alignment in their life through all your incredible creative work, your writing, the tools that you share, the ideas that you explain in language that somebody like me can understand. So I'm curious what is your definition of sovereign? Because it's such a powerful word, and I feel I am just entering a stage in my life where I'm claiming more sovereignty in my own expression and existence in this life. But I'm curious how you ex how you would explain what sovereign is.

What Sovereignty Really Means, Explained Through Statecraft

Alan Hong: Yeah, that's a great question. The thing with sovereignty, let's take the literal, to me, in the context of state affairs and a king, right? So sovereign, king, royalty. So if you look at statecraft, right? It's all about managing the economy of the state, the people's health and the affairs. Also managing their relationships with other countries and other sovereign states, right? As I said, sovereign states. So a sovereign's goal is to protect the needs of the state, right? And the needs of the people and the needs of, you know, from an economical standpoint, from a defense standpoint, from a, what else? A social standpoint. That's what a sovereign's job is to put the needs, is to protect the needs of the state. Right? With a sovereign, they're not, I guess, giving in or allowing other external influences to determine the affairs of the state, affairs of the country. Right? So to use that metaphor, a sovereign is all about managing yourself in a way where you have complete agency over your decisions. Every decision you make, comes from within and is for the benefit of your needs, not for the benefit of other people's needs, right? And I think we can relate to that is when we outsource our decisions to other voices. So like for example, Justin, you read a lot of advice and listened to lot of podcasts from other financial authorities, right? But I hope in the exercise of living to all of these authorities that you were still able to make a decision that was best for you. Even though their financial journey looked like that and that's what worked for them, that then you're picking and choosing the pieces that work for you and you alone. That's what I mean by sovereign. It's not outsourcing your decisions, your needs, your goals to other people because that's what they think. Just because it's important to them that you're still making sure that you're looking after your own needs, more importantly. That's what I mean by sovereign. It's the benefit of your state, which is who you are. Just like a president or a king would look after their own country. It's not to outsource decisions to them, but to maintain your own personal agency over your own life.

Justin David Carl: Yeah. It's really authentic, aligned, coherent, self governing.

Alan Hong: Yeah, Spot on. Yeah, that's it. Perfect.

Justin David Carl: Yeah, no, I really like how I never thought about it from the statecraft standpoint, which as soon as you said that, it made way more sense to me. So this is why I love your work is because you let me Understand things from a system standpoint, right? So basically, in your answer, you're just you shared a system of sovereignty viewed through the lens of statecraft, and it made complete sense. And then you take that same concept and apply it to yourself, your life, all the different parts of your life, your body, your mind, your heart, your spirit. Your family, your work, your physical activities, your hobbies. And it made so much more sense to me. So thank you for that. That was awesome. And this is, you know, I really appreciate you we you know, we're almost at two hours. So I'm gonna wrap this down. And I'm pr probably gonna have to have you come back on the show and talk more. As your work continues to develop and as I continue to read more of it. So At the end of every interview I asked the guest to share a tip, tool, or strategy for fitness slash health, money slash wealth, and life slash happiness. So what do you got for us, Alan?

Alan's Money Tip: Time in the Market, Not Timing the Market

Alan Hong: Okay, so which one are we starting with? Money, okay. So money, it's, so everything, so with money, when I was a financial planner, I think the best advice I could give someone when it comes to investing is time in the market, not timing the market. That's, I think that's something that they share a lot as well. You just wanna, I think people often get, they want the exciting stuff. They want things to be exciting. They want something sexy, but. It's really just leaving your money in there, leave it there in there for forever and it'll just go up, right? It's not trying to work out where in the market to sell or to buy if you're trading or investing in stocks. I mean, I think there was a chart I was using when I was a financial planner to show people the importance of just staying in the market, not timing it so you're trying to sell when it's peaked. Now, don't do that, right? Just keep it in there. I think it was like over 100 years from if you put in 10 grand in 1900, You left it there for 100 years. It went through like World War I, World War II, Spanish Influenza, GFC, and you're still up. You're still making bank despite multiple war ending changing events. You know, unless you, know, even after the war goes through all that, you're still up. So it's time in the market. So if you're thinking about investing, would just leave my money in the market and just not touch it for many, many years.

Justin David Carl: I love it. What do you got for health slash fitness?

Alan's Fitness Tip: Hypertrophy and Progressive Overload

Alan Hong: Health slash fitness. So when I was working out, I think my favorite two philosophies, principles were hypertrophy and progressive overload. So I think that's how we operate in terms of our muscles. So hypertrophy is when you tear the muscles, right? So in order for the muscle for our, so we're a system. I love the idea of systems and a good system adapts and is efficient. Naturally when you're tearing the muscles, which is what hypertrophy is, The system has to repair, the body has to repair. So in order to prevent it from tearing as easily, it's going to give you more muscle fibers. You want to have a, and that's why they always talk about having a good workout, tear the muscle fibers. So make sure you're tearing those fibers in a good and healthy way. And then the second principle is progressive overload. So that's the healthy way, right? So you don't want to go too far. You don't want to reach too far, too hard. Otherwise you're going to hurt yourself. So you want to always push a little bit, push a little bit to give your muscles enough of a load where it would tear those fibers, which is a principle not unlike in life progressive overload where we don't want to give ourselves too much, but just enough so we become comfortable, we adapt to it and then we can add a little bit more to it.

Justin David Carl: Yeah, I'm such a huge fan of progressive overload in any area of your life that you want to grow. So it's adding a little bit more volume week over week to whatever that is. So it could be your content creation, it could be your monthly investing, it could be your physical exercise routine. You're adding a f a few more pounds every workout that you hit. So love it. What do you got for life slash happiness?

Alan's Life Tip: Zoom Out and See the Patterns

Alan Hong: There's so many things, but I think I want to settle on being open minded enough to see patterns in life. Right. So what I mean by that is, you mentioned, you know, we talked about progressive overload right now, just now. And you can see that in all facets of life, right? Progressive overload, the principle. And that's what I mean by, if you want to, be more expansive or be happy in life. Just realize everything's connected, Everything plays a part in life. Zoom out so you can see things in their entirety rather than just narrowing in on one small thing because often it's not your fault or often it's not that person's fault or it's just not that one thing. It's many things happening and that should give us peace because there's so many things we can't control and we should embrace that. Although there's a lot of things that we can't control and there's a lot of things happening in the background. And when we are aware of that and we can have that appreciation, that's when we find inner peace because that's because the only thing that we can really control or have agency over is how we choose to engage with things or accept things. So that'd be my number one piece of advice.

Where to Find Alan Hong Online

Justin David Carl: So Alan is at the Alan Hong on Instagram. He has a free five day coherence course, which I will link to in the show notes for this. I'll also link to his Instagram. Are there any other places that people can connect with you online that we should share on this podcast?

Alan Hong: Yeah, the Instagram is a great spot. If there's anyone else who is a little bit more interested or open to the idea of coherence, what it means and how to achieve coherence, right? Yeah, that's a great place to start the Instagram account.

Justin David Carl: Awesome. Well, Alan, thank you so much for joining me early in the morning from Australia. It's so great to have you on the show. Any last words of wisdom, requests of the audience or anything else you want to share before we wrap this up?

Alan Hong: No, I think that's everything for now. Thank you for having me, Justin. It's been great being on the show and I hope the guys out there got a lot out of it. So thank you.

Justin David Carl: Awesome. Thanks for coming on the show, brother.

Alan Hong: No, thank you. Cheers.